::G    [18790.   Posted 14-Mar-2013 Thu 11:15]
  müslümanlarla dalga gecme muhammed (sav) alakalý o resmi kaldýr!

IanG    [18788.   Posted 14-Feb-2012 Tue 17:41]
  A Load of Wank...

It seems the `lawmakers` in Oklahoma don`t know much about human biology. Men generally "otherwise deposit sperm" every time they take a piss. So, it seems our own bodily functions are "detrimental to unborn children" or, rather, the govenor`s of Oklahoma are proving themselves to be detrimental to mankind, freedom, sanity and normality.

Are the rest of the so-called `lawmakers` we have fucking up the world as uneducated and unenlightened as this bunch of brainless meddling twats?

Shaun    [18787.   Posted 26-Jul-2011 Tue 12:39]
  The problem I have with religions - ALL religions, is that they think it gives then a licence to dictate to OTHER people how they should live their lives, using legal means to enforce it. They especially seem to want to control women and their sexuality and frankly seem obsessed with sex and censorship. It`s pathetic.

NO one on this earth really knows what is going on. Someday science might get a good deal closer, but at the moment any extreme position is simple arrogance.

Believe whatever you will therefore. Believe in the Pink Elephant in the Sky if you must. But please, Please don`t force your complete crap on other people.

newnature    [18786.   Posted 16-May-2011 Mon 01:46]
  Day of Yahweh

Morality was apply within only a particular tribe’s agreements, and the rightness of action on its collective mood towards addressing other groups, it’s individuated and localized to only particular groupings, and really should have reality within the attendant cultural paradigms who agree with it. But the Israelites had a specific worldview, and they imposed that worldview; that radical new world view was monotheism. The eating off this tree of knowledge of good and bad has caused a moral conflict and tension between Yahweh’s good design for creation. The drama of humanity’s life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, nor preoccupation with immortality; it was not in Yahweh’s design for this kind of drama. It’s the power of moral choice alone that is godlike.

Morality’s about balance and survival, and the methods aren’t as important as the mannerisms in preserving humanity for eons instead of centuries, as humanity is walking in the footsteps of so called ancient civilizations in odious and strange ways. A pop culture where the modus litany puts valuables before values, character, ethic, writes a recipe for ruin. The error is as deep as the nature of man, humanity cannot expect any deliverance from it so long as the nature of man continues the same, and humanity’s natural love of truth almost as depraved as humanity’s natural love of holiness. Humanity has before it the opportunity to become a conscious cooperator, no longer must we be merely unconscious players at the mercy of forces and energies beyond our control. Today we are intelligent enough and conscious enough to see the patterns and cycles that converge to form human destiny. Today humanity can take an active part in molding that destiny and not be simply the unwitting subject of the forces of change. But awaiting humanity is the Day of Yahweh, a popular idea among the Israelites, that on some future occasion, Yahweh would dramatically intervene in world affairs and he would do so on Israel’s behalf. He would lead Israel in victory over her enemies. They would be punished. Israel would be restored to her full and former glory.

Remember those covenants,

pure    [18785.   Posted 20-Apr-2011 Wed 07:13]
  800 New Life Values of New Era Human Being(1-80)


1. Humankind will get into the Lifechanyuan Era lasting one thousand years very soon.

2. Revere the Greatest Creator, revere life, revere nature and take the way of the Greatest Creator.

3. There is a supernatural soul in the universe, the supernatural soul is the Greatest Creator.

4. The Greatest Creator is the supreme governor in the universe, is the host of all gods, is the cradle of life, is the birthplace of wisdom, is the creator of the universe and life, is the motivity of the universe, is the energy center of the universe, is the sweet spring in the desert, is the lighthouse in dense fog, is ancestor of Buddha, is Allah, is the Great Brahma and is ¡°Lzo Tian Ye¡± that Chinese people say.

5. Consciousness, Structure and Energy are three key elements forming the universe.

6.Consciousness decides existence. What kind of Consciousness is, what kind of form of life¡¯s existence and life environment will be.

7. The essence of the Greatest Creator`s way is Nature, Love and Tao. Nature is the character of structure, love is the character of energy, Tao is the character of consciousness.

8. The universe is the product of the Greatest Creator`s consciousness.

9. The origin of the universe is not the Big Bang, but Wuji (Supreme ultimate) creates Taiji (Great ultimate), chaos becomes Zhaos.

10. There are eight kinds of force in the universe: Magnetic force, gravitation, strong force, weak force, tectonic force, repulsive force,
conscious force and spiritual force.

newnature    [18784.   Posted 27-Mar-2011 Sun 17:32]
  The Tree Of Life Series

Hi everyone, I’m been reasoning out that life Yahweh has within himself, which is the same life the tree of life produces; that life is cool stuff. Thanks for any reasoning insights one has on this tree of life series. I’m always trying to learn more about this life, thanks.

Post 1 of the tree of life series

If one really thinks about it, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. After all, that’s what the serpent omitted in his speech, before Eve ate off the tree of knowledge of good and bad. The serpent said, “You are not going to die, but Yahweh knows that as soon as you eat of it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings, who know good and bad.” It’s true in one sense, but false in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out, that its the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh like. The very action that brought Adam and Eve a Yahweh like awareness of their mortal autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh. Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad; it’s one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good. For Adam and Eve to have true freedom of will, Adam and Eve have to have the freedom to rebel. This is why this tree is in the garden, next to the tree of life; instead, evil will come about as a result of the clash of the will of Yahweh, and the will of humans, who happen to have the freedom to rebel. Human beings, and only human beings are the potential source of evil, responsibility for evil will lie in the hands of human beings. Yet, evil is represented not as a physical reality, it’s not built into the structure of Eden, evil is a condition of human existence, and to assert that evil stems from human behavior. The drama of Adam and Eve’s life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, nor preoccupation with immortality; it was not in Yahweh’s design for this kind of drama. It was Yahweh’s design for the tree of life to have been eaten of, there was no danger to Adam and Eve going on eternally, being immortal. The eating off the tree of knowledge of good and bad, has caused a moral conflict and tension between Yahweh’s good design for creation, and the free will of human beings that can corrupt that good design. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos. Man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. Human freedom can be at one and the same time an omen of disaster, and a challenge, and opportunity.

So despite Adam and Eve’s newfound mortality, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. They’re unpredictable to the very Yahweh who created them. Yahweh has to modify his plan, by barring access to the tree of life; that was not something presumably Yahweh planned to do. Adam and Eve had access to this tree up to that point, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal. Once they discovered their moral freedom, once they discovered that they could thwart Yahweh and work evil in the world, and abuse and corrupt all that Yahweh had created, then Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life. That would be tantamount to creating divine enemies, immortal enemies. So Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. And Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh stations the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life, once Adam and Eve were banished from the garden. The tree of life is now inaccessible; no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So it might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad did bring death to human race.

Sorry all these reasoning of mine are so long.

THE JUDDERMAN    [18783.   Posted 17-Feb-2011 Thu 03:29]
  WHY cant people SEE what is so blatently obvious?

HOW many religions are there in the world today? 100? 200? What about different factions? (Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists etc etc etc) Does that take it up to 1000?

Guess what? EVERY single one thinks they are right!! And its ALL bollocks!

Throughout all of human history there have been different Gods & religions, it is easy to understand in years gone by. Anything people didnt understand MUST be the work of an unseen force. Fairly logical really. The Incas, Aztecs, Romans, Greeks even the Druids had their own Gods! We look back now & call them stupid, or pagans, but we are no different!!

Then, of course, there are the Egyptians! (Iam no historian, so forgive my lack of identification on this point!) For centuries, they worshiped many Gods. Then a Pharoh came along who decreed there should be a single deity. NEXT Pharoh comes along & overturns this ruling, rebuilding the temples to the original Gods.

EH? Gods, as dictated by the whim of man? Roman Catholic? Church Of England? Open your eyes people!!

The simple fact is, there have been more lives lost in the name of religion (Or, in the case of the nazis, religious intolerance) Than any invasion/border dispute. (And all you holocaust deniers can fuck off)

I DO believe that Jesus existed. I DO believe he was a very holy & sincere man. But the Son Of God? Nah.

I cant help but agree with something I read in a magazine a while ago. Any religious group is just a glorified gang! (My gangs bigger than your gang!) Utter nonsense.

Hafiz Yasir Latif Qureshi    [18781.   Posted 21-Dec-2010 Tue 00:18]
  First Attempt to reconcile faith with reason (Science)

Series: 6 Wisdom of The Holy Qur’an
Author: Rashid Seyal: Seyal Medical Center Multan Pakistan -92614513333

Abstract from “Faith in the Unseen” book published by iUniverse USA

A’lif L’am M’im
This is the Scripture,
Whereof there’s no doubt to debate
Guidance for the virtuous in state
Who assert and affirm, faith in unseen
And also abide prayers, noble in esteem
Dole out alms affirmed in routine
Out of Our Bestowal in supreme (2:1–4)

Assertion of faith in the unseen is the basis of Islam, but as a routine, scientistshave refuted the discipline of faith in the unseen. When we open the second chapter of the Holy Scripture, it very clearly gives a true picture ofthe subject.
‘A’lif ‘L’am ‘M’im—undoubtedly, there should not be any discrepancyor dissent, disavowal or dissension, disagreement or defiance in anybody’smind regarding the truth of discipline ordained in this book. Which book?The one which has been decreed and distinguished by His “A”lmighty“A”LLah and conferred through Gabrie“L,” the archangel, to His Prophet“M”uhammad PBUH. The revelation pronounced by His Almighty Lord toHis Prophet Muhammad PBUH through the Archangel Gabriel is perhaps theonly Scripture that is preserved in its categorical conformation to stance andstanza of each word communicated by His Almighty and conveyed to HisProphet Muhammad (PBUH).
We recite the each venerable verse and each ornate word of the sanctifiedscripture in its glorious antediluvian configuration. When this conceptprevails in the mind, it becomes exceptionally beseeching and bracing becausethese are the words uttered in their original pronunciation and position bythe Lord Almighty, the Archangel Gabriel, and Muhammad PBUH, the HolyProphet. When this perception deeply insinuates itself in the mind, that weare vocalizing the words, phrases, and verses that were primarily established by His Almighty, a state of serenity and satisfaction, blissfulness and beatitudeprevails in the mind, body, and soul.The Holy Scripture gives an account of all the instances, occurrences,and happenings when the things and the world itself had not actualized.Divine perception and vision commands all instances of how and when itwould happen.
Has any book in this world ever made this challenge or pronouncementto defy its entirety and essence?Perhaps none so far!
The Holy Scripture invites you to concentrate on the course and contentsof the Scripture sagaciously and then look for any inconsistency, scruple,or suspense in the text, the slur or blur of its assertions and affirmations,proclamations and declarations.
It is guidance for the virtuous—precisely, it is the spring of eruditionand edification, demeanor and deportment, injunction and inclination formankind, but only those who strive to secure the convinced capabilities asenumerated below acquire virtuosity and vivacity, and they are blessed withbenevolence in faith.
True faith has always endeavored to sense the softness and sweetness of thesoul and determined diligence with fortitude and forbearance in the subjectswho resolved after due forethought and with no vanity or vainglory in theirminds, which men call exaltation or excellence. There should be an adamantfaith of love with persistence, patience, and perseverance, and an ebullienceto escort those who had anything to volunteer for the common weal of conviction. There is an everlasting firmness in giving to everyone accordingto the firm belief and the knowledge derived from the Holy Scripture thatendows the experience of discernment and discretion, enlightenment anderudition, elegance and edification of special sophisticated subjects likemodern-day science and philosophy, in addition to a bestowal of perceptionand prudence and discipline and direction in all walks of life.
The very first principle of perception as asserted in the Qur’an for thevirtuous is to have faith in the unseen.
Is such a faith delusive and deceptive from a scientific point of view?
But when we concern the fundamental philosophy of the scientificconvictions, for what they observe and assert is once again faith in the unseen,as Sir Arthur Eddington in his famous Cambridge lectures shows that allfundamental laws and constants of physics are deduced unambiguouslyfrom a prior consideration. These laws are very successful in explaining theobjective world. So he concludes, in the age of reason, faith yet remainssupreme, for reason is one of the articles of faith.
A few illustrations would make this point clearer.

For details go to page ‘1’ of Faith in the Unseen by A.Rashid Seyal.

ChiefCensor    [18780.   Posted 24-Jul-2010 Sat 00:54]
  I wonder what percentage of the population actually thinks that Scientology is anywhere near sensible

IanG    [18779.   Posted 22-Jul-2010 Thu 10:14]
  "A Cardiff councillor who referred to Scientology as stupid on a social network site has been referred to an ethics committee."

Indeed he should. We all know Scientology has been declared "a dangerous cult" by the courts! It isn`t stupid, its insane fiction from the pen of L Ron Hubbard.

Think I`ll start the `Church of Never Never Land` so we can all pray to Lord God Peter Pan for eternal youth and, to send us tick-tocking crocodiles and Tinkerbell fairies to save us from evil Pirates with hooks. Anyone want to sign up? It`s only £100,000 for a life membership (cash only - no cheques!) and, of course, your solemn oath, on pain of death, to sacrifice your first born to the third star on the left just before dawn if you ever say you don`t believe in fairies (its in the small print after clause 3172(b) on page 1036 of Your Biding Contract with the Chruch of Never Never Land, just before clause 3173, which states apostates will be decalared pirates and must submit to having their hand replaced with a hook).

IanG    [18778.   Posted 27-Jun-2010 Sun 07:19]
  "Most of the Internet is Considered Sacrilegious..."

Yeah? Well here`s a bit more: Most religion is considered bullshit.


@JesusRules, ...and I thought I was losing it.

Listen up you fools.

Our Saviour IS love, compassion, knowledge, reason and understanding.

Our Destroyer IS hate, indifference, ignorance, irrationality and superstition.

Get it?

`Jesus` is inside all of us alongside the `Devil`. Believe in love, compassion, knowledge, reason and understanding instead of that crazy superstitious clap trap else you lot will indeed end up destroying the whole of mankind.

Know the TRUTH when you see it!


@bjabir, I wonder what makes you believe you deserve life everlasting in some unearthly paradise? I`m not religious but even I recognise that whatever created this universe is far beyond anything we can hope to understand. What you believe is akin to us granting eternal life to amoeba in exchange for their worship. If there is a God then nothing people do as a result of our ignorance will affect the outcome after death. We will all be forgiven because we are falible and we all make mistakes - we were made that way by our creator.

What matters my friend is the here and now and trying to make this world as close to paradise as we can for ALL life on earth. Because only IF we get the balance absolutely right can this little old earth go on supporting life until the Sun finally gives up the holy ghost - i.e. the life-giving Energy of light and warmth we all need to survive.

When I die I expect to sleep for the rest of eternity - absolute bliss, no pain, no worries, no nothing. My earthly remains will be taken by Mother Nature and reborn into a myriad of new lifeforms just as its been for over 500 million years. I`m happy with that. I expect no more from the creator that gave me this life, this mind and these eyes to know and see this miracle of creation with all its laws and stars and wonderous lifeforms.

Be thankful for what we have got and stop dreaming of that which can never be known and, quite frankly, none of us really deserve.

This Earth is the only paradise I know in the heavens and we`re rapidly turning it into Hell, in fact, we seem hellbent on turning it into a living hell on a rather regular basis.

Grow up and get real otherwise reality will come round and bite you all very hard in the arse (and pretty soon by the look of things!).

This `prophet` has spoken.

JesusRules    [18777.   Posted 24-Jun-2010 Thu 03:52]
  The Great Storm

A massive storm is soon coming to Southern California. I believe it will come before the end of this summer 2010 or sometime in the year 2010. The storm is going to be very big with high winds, pouring rain, massive lightning bolts, and thunder so loud it will knock you out of your chair. But this isn`t just any storm, this storm represents something very deep. It represents the destruction and defeat of the "Evil God`s" that have devoured and destroyed innocent life. These evil God`s have inflicted intense and tremendous evil and pain among innocent life. They have inflicted as much harm imaginable. There are several of these evil God`s. The name of this massive storm is "The Great Storm."

The plan is that when The Great Storm comes, to light a Jesus candle in a dark room, and keep it lit during the storm. The defeat of these evil God`s is dedicated to the Goddesses and Jesus, as they are one. The way to dedicate their defeat to Jesus and the Goddesses is to tie a "purple ribbon" around the Jesus candle, as the color purple represents the Goddesses.

The Great Storm of intense energy will only last for about one to two hours, so make sure that you are prepared before the storm comes. Listen to your weekly weather forecasts of any possible major storms in the Los Angeles, CA and surrounding areas as far north as Mojave.

bjabir    [18776.   Posted 23-Apr-2010 Fri 04:35]
  Are you going to reach 100 years old?

Very few people will reach 100 and above

Therefore, every 100 years the whole world replaced by new people!!!

So, you are definitely going to die sooner or later (may be today!!!) Maximum of 130 years

This is a fact, no one can argue about it

Please open your eyes wider

Do not ignore that fact, and suddenly find yourself inside a grave
So, what will happen after death?
At this point everyone has his/her own believe depending on his/her faith
If you believe in paradise and Hell well and good, if not here is a logical example for you:

Assume that you must take an exam, and after the exam you will definitely be placed into a reception waiting for your result (Eventually you will be placed in the reception, no other option at all---you are not going to escape death, are you?).
So, if many people talking about only two mandatory exists-one will get you to a jungle full of lions and tigers and the other to a very beautiful place full of everything you dream and think of .And they are telling you that, your ticket type to the entrance depend upon the exam result.
We are facing another very big problem too, no one died came back to tell us what is going on over there!!!!
So, are you going to risk it? And just say I do not care or you are you are going to work hard for that exam
If you are saying I will not take the exam, you are in exam room right now (this life and all your behaviours are being recorded), the reception is waiting for you immediately after you die


One God definitely is controlling the whole universe(earth, Sun, Moon, animals, sky, sea, wind, rain, water, human beings ...etc).There must be one God or there will be imbalance in the planet, if there are many ,everyone is going to do it the way he like

This is just a start my friend to let you think yourself carefully about your eminent fate Please try for one time to think about that; using your mind and logic and NOT your current or previous sympathetic view
Can you just watch the following websites to just see what are these people talking about?

www.islam-guide.com/islam-guide.pdf

http://www.islamnewsroom.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/

http://www.justaskislam.com/index.php

http://www.justaskislam.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

http://www.watchislam.com/tv1/

www.islamhouse.com

Shaun    [18775.   Posted 13-Feb-2010 Sat 17:29]
  Much as I really am sick and tired of Christians trying to dictate how I live my life, and trying to dictate how the state should censor MY viewing, two wrongs don`t make a right.

I thought the judgement was appalling and cannot see any reason why this woman cannot freely wear a small symbol of her faith round her neck as many people do.

To me it`s just another unnecessary restriction imposed on a free person by corporate control freak mentality gone mad. Although I am a member of the Secular Society I certainly don`t agree with their stance on this.

Most Christians do wear a cross round their neck, even if it is optional and unless it really is dangerous owing to their work, I simply cannot see why they should hide it or remove it.

bleach    [18774.   Posted 13-Feb-2010 Sat 07:56]
  The Only Fair Solution

I think it is a fair decision but what`s interesting is BA should have said it breached a dress code as it was excessive or unsubtle jewellery. A lot of workplaces have a dress code which states (but in formal terms) "bling" jewellery isn`t allowed although the cross isn`t bling they could`ve escaped some legal proceedings by using that scapegoat. But fairplay for them sticking to their decision.

2) I think Nadia Eweida also argued that Muslims who work for BA are allowed to wear Hijabs and the men doppa hats. Yes because it is part of traditional Islamic religion; there is nothing in the bible that says Christians must wear a cross and as Bill Hicks Said "If Jesus comes back; do you think he wants to see a fucking cross".

Shaun    [18773.   Posted 12-Feb-2010 Fri 05:31]
  "If people believe in God on hearsay or declare a belief in God to avoid a debate, then this will not guarantee their salvation. … Therefore, it is of utmost importance that considerable thought be given to the question of the existence of God."

So, that lack of salvation leads to what ? Obvilion ? Incessant torture in the fires of hell, sent there by some jealous omnipotent heavenly bully boy who demands "morality" from us, but then uses highly questionable (and immoral) methods to impose those demands ? Someone who tortures innocent kids to death by giving them horrendous illnesses to suffer and no food or water, or kills them with earthquakes ?

Nope. I simply don`t believe in such an entity. I don`t even WANT to believe in something as vicious as that. If I am wrong and am to be dammed then so be it.

One thing though - If He does exist and is that omnipotent and vicious he can punish me himself. He doesn`t need people blowing things up, and that kind of thing, ie folk doing it FOR him.

Shaun    [18772.   Posted 12-Feb-2010 Fri 05:01]
  It is interesting how religious people grasp at any shred of evidence for a diety, but completely ignore any evidence to suggest that He simply does not exists, or if He does exist, He doesn`t give a fig about us at all.

On the origin of the universe: the article on islamdk completely ignores a fourth possibility (my words quoted):

"
That the creation of various universes in the so called "multiverse" is in fact a process which goes on all the time in a sphere of existence, and is nothing unusual at all.
"

The problem is that humans cannot think beyond their three dimensional restricted view of reality and their experiences, and thefore have to "explain" difficult issues by citing the existence of a diety of some kind, when there isn`t really strong evidence for such an entity. If such a diety did exist, then His existance would be just as hard to explain as the existince of the universe itself, or indeed the existence of anything at all.

So deities in fact, explain nothing at all, when looked at rationally and logicaly. Even children realise that when they innocently ask "has God got a mother ?"

Having said all that, it is my belief that the universe is far from what it seems.

A particular individual is _MUCH_ more likely to win the lottery every day for a year, than to exist at all.

In my case I simply don`t get that lucky and my own conciousness would have simply bypassed existence at all and "I" should have remained in the bliss of the oblivion of NON existence. So therefore there seems to be something else going on. Something we humans know very little about.

On the other hand, perhaps if there`s an infinite number of universes as some scientists suggest, then there`s simply GOT to be one, where "I" (whatever `I` actually truly am), along with everything else here exist, just as it in fact does now.

islamdk    [18771.   Posted 28-Jan-2010 Thu 14:09]
  If people believe in God on hearsay or declare a belief in God to avoid a debate, then this will not guarantee their salvation. … Therefore, it is of utmost importance that considerable thought be given to the question of the existence of God.

This essay therefore addresses the fundamental question: is there a God?

A discussion about God’s existence should start with the acknowledgement that the burden of proof lies with the theists, that is, with those who believe in God.

There are some questions that puzzle most reflective people: How did the laws of nature come to be? How did the universe come into existence? And how did life as a phenomenon originate from non-life?

The Kalam cosmological argu-ment(8) for the existence of God is a method of argument developed by medieval Muslim logicians and it was popularised in the West by philosopher William Craig. This philosophy entails the following; given that an observable universe exists, there are three possibilities: First, the universe always existed. Second, the universe created itself. Third, an all-powerful and all-knowing transcendent being, which we call God, created it. Let us examine each of these possibilities separately.

read more on ..www.islamdk.com

islamdk    [18770.   Posted 28-Jan-2010 Thu 14:06]
  Views of Scientists on the Existence of God

www.islamdk.com

very interesting artical

Mike Rufamens    [18769.   Posted 20-Oct-2009 Tue 01:46]
  I want to start a group of Knights for Reason, made up of drifters and mal-contents such as myself who would be prepared to roam around living off our wits and starting trouble between religious groups so as to make explicit the absurdity and violence inherent in all religion... a kind of band of "agents provocateurs" whose mission would be to draw out the poison of religious thought and practice -draw it out in the open by creative acts of mischievious misdemeanor- drag it by its beard or chasuble, as the case may be, from its miserable hiding place behind so-called "moderate" forms and expressions of religiosity.

Maybe "Nights of Reason" is better... or, "Servants of Logos" or "Reasonable Turks" ...

So, are there any nihilistic ne`er-do-wells out there wanna chip in with ideas?

DarkAngel5    [18767.   Posted 26-Sep-2009 Sat 08:16]
  Thought this might be more appropriate here than in the Melonfarmers forum.

It seems that in the US, young earth creationist Ray Comfort of the living water ministry and Way of the Master YouTube channel, has teamed up with several other YEC groups, including the notorious `Answers in Genesis` and is planning to give away "revised" versions of Darwin`s "Origin of the Species" to coincide with its 150th anniversary at 50-100 universities accross the US and canada.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN9zpf5cT0M

This edition is going to contain a 50 page pre-face, written by comfort himself, containing the usual creationist clap trap accusing him of racism, sexism and how his theory was what inspired Hitler to commit genocide and how its an unscientific beleif, etc etc (the usual unfounded propaganda) along with tracts from the bible saying how the book of genesis is right (you get teh impression).

Its just a sneaky way of trying to get creationist crap into the classroom.

To be honest, its not what he`s putting in to this book, its what he`s leaving out that worries me. Anyone else think he`s going to do a bit of editorial revisions to Darwin`s original publication to suit his own ends?

I think someone should write a pre-face to the bible detailing how this book (and other like it) has been used to justify countless hostilities and atrocities over the centuries and how the Nazis all wore insignia with the words "god`s with us" on their uniforms, give them out free of charge outside their churches and see how THEY like it! :-)

Incidentally, neither Ray Comfort nor his side kick (former actor) Kirk Cameron have ever read a science book in their entire lives so I`d like to know how they are in any way qualified to critisise anything!

mikejones    [18765.   Posted 27-Mar-2009 Fri 15:50]
  THE NATURE OF EXISTENCE
www.thenatureofexistence.com

All the Mysteries of the Universe - Explained! Sort of…

What is the most important question there is? After exploring the phenomenon of STAR TREK fans in the acclaimed documentary TREKKIES, filmmaker Roger Nygard is taking on THE NATURE OF EXISTENCE, traveling the globe to the source of the world’s philosophies, religions, and belief systems, interviewing spiritual leaders, scholars, scientists, artists and others who have influenced, inspired, or freaked out humanity.

“I made a list of the eighty-five toughest questions I could think of,” said Nygard, “starting with biggest one, ‘why do we exist?’ and then I began interrogating the widest cross-section of humanity possible.” Here are a few more of the questions asked in the movie: What is man’s purpose? What started the Universe? Where was God during the Holocaust? What is Truth? Should people have sex before marriage? What is the best way to find happiness? Where is the afterlife? Where are the voices in my head coming from? …

How would YOU answer? What journey is more important than one that takes us closer to finding meaning in our existence

Profiled in the film are people like Indian holy man, His Holiness Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (The Art of Living), who described his job as “dehusking” people: “stress is the husk, which covers the light, the joy within a person.”

Nygard spoke with Catholic Archbishop D’Ambrosio in Italy, who believed his is the true religion and said, “To believe in Christ is not easy. But it’s not impossible.”

In Athens, Georgia, Rob Adonis, founder of Ultimate Christian Wrestling, says he looks forward to the afterlife, “In Heaven I’m going to be perfect, I’ll have abs of steel, I’m going to be chiseled, I’m going to have a great tan.”

Taoist Master Zhang Chengda of China’s Azure Cloud Temple on Taishan Mountain, China’s holiest mountain, said, “If you do good in this life, then you can continue practicing Tao in the afterlife.”

Islamic scholar Dr. Zakir Naik maintains, “In Islam, the Truth prevails, not majority.”

In England, evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, said, “Not only do you not need God, it’s positively counterproductive, if you are trying to understand the nature of Existence.”

In Palo Alto, California, Leonard Susskind (co-discovered string theory) explained that modern string theorists are coming to the conclusion that there is not just one Universe, but more likely trillions, if not an infinite number of Universes, all with laws of physics different from ours.

Professor Li Shaoqiang, in Confucious’ home town of Qufu, China, explained that, “Chinese people worship Mao Ze Tung as god because he founded a country.”

And over 100 others like Harvard psychologist and author Daniel Gilbert (Stumbling on Happiness), film director Irvin Kershner (Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back), novelist and Mormon Orson Scott Card (Ender’s Game), and Stonehenge Druids Rollo Maughfling & King Arthur Pendragon….

After a four-year world-wide odyssey, the filmmakers had over 450 hours of footage to boil down to an hour and a half, to bring audiences the best and the most transcendental moments, to present a fascinating look at humanity, and our Universe, seen through the eyes of some of the most interesting people on our planet.

Running time: 93:50

Paul Tavener    [18763.   Posted 4-Jan-2009 Sun 10:28]
  Some of you might be interested in the post I have just made on the main melonfarmers forum re Radio 4`s Thought For The Day:

http://www.gavinorland.com/religion/thought-for-the-day-my-letter/

loveandpeace    [18761.   Posted 10-Dec-2008 Wed 03:29]
  LIBERTY STINK:
"And the outrage at such a barbaric act carried out against their Muslim Sisters (with justification for the act being Islamic Sharia Law) from all those peace-loving, compassionate, moderate British Muslims (or indeed Globally) is deafening!

I guess cartoons and books are far more sinful and insulting to them then than the purposeful disfiguring of 2 Muslim children, as we can`t shut the noise up from Muslims when someone draws or writes something (or names a teddy bear)"

LIBERTY STINK {18755. Posted 11-Nov-2008 Tue 13:26}
"So now we have a 13 year old girl used as a suicide bomber, to mostly kill other children, in Iraq.

But lets blame the evil West again and apologise for barbaric Islamists and their religion of peace!

Where are the rallies and marches against such atrocity throughtout the Muslim and (increasingly Muslim anyway) non-Muslim lands FROM Muslims?
Or are cartoons and books bigger sins to them?"


LIBERTY STINK {18754. Posted 27-Jun-2008 Fri 10:14}
------"POLICE sniffer dogs trained to spot terrorists at railway stations may no longer come into contact with Muslim passengers – after complaints that it is against the suspects’ religion.-----


Despite the ONLY... I repeat...ONLY terrorist threat we face comes from Muslims!"

--------I agree very much with Liberty Stink on these issues he has raised above. These are issues my own Muslim community and others have raised and voiced their concerns over with the MEDIA (or at least sections of the media who would listen AND broadcast it!), but yet again, i am afraid it is probably because its not media savvy that ordinary folks do hear about the outrage that Muslims feel about the "acid affair" and the "13 yr old suicide bomber"

I also agree, but hasten to add i am not a self hating Muslim, that Muslims in the UK should allow the Police to use Sniffer dogs etc to do their job. The Muslims, including i, have to "suffer" these procedures for a few reasons: 1- it’s the Law, 2- Muslims should accept we are going through intensive scrutiny and allow such things to proceed (after all the British establishment would never, knowingly, be uncivil with their investigative procedures, unlike a lot of other countries!

A lot of the atheist on here are very good people and i am sure do very good things for humankind. We Muslims should work with you, side by side, because we share many common values and ethics. You are good people and also very intelligent and honest people. As a Muslim i don’t see you as "Atheists" but people who have the potential to show us other Muslims that you can be good and just people without believing in a God. I very much respect that. However, there has to be a "but" somewhere of course :-),i really feel if Atheists like the good folks here did ever become Muslims, you will indeed teach the rest of the Muslim world, what and how true Islam should be practised, and one day that day will come, because you are good people.

Sincerely,

INCREASE THE PEACE.
INCREASE THE LOVE.

myway    [18760.   Posted 5-Dec-2008 Fri 14:52]
  THE WORLD’S GOLDEN RATIO POINT


www(.)miracleofkaaba(.)com ( for detailed information and pictures )

The Golden Ratio… Phi … 0,61… probably the most spiritual number in math. The mysterious seal that is impressed to the most elites by God. Our heart beat, our DNA, the special shape of the universe named dodecahedron, lots of galaxies spiral structure, perfect human faces and bodies, the lines of the plants’ leaves and many more are designed by the number of the golden ratio.

It didn`t take long time for scientists to find this perfect ratio which is used in the nature`s design. Historical records tell us that this ratio is known for about 4000 years. In the design of the pyramids and many famous architectural work of art this ratio is used. Leonardo Da Vinci and Mimar Sinan are the most important users of this number in the history.

According to this ratio, the number of the ratio which defines the shape was always 0.61.

As we all know, latitudes and longitudes are become as a universal measuring system which are used in coordinate determination and setting the time. God sends his messages with the form of human’s understandings; with their units of measurements, or else the messages won’t be understandable.

As can be understood from the calculations on the latitudes and longitudes the earth’s golden ratio point is at Mecca. The coordinates east longitude +39,82 and the north latitude +21,42 (Google Earth) shows that Kaaba and the holy area is at the earth’s golden ratio point.







(90 + 21,42 = 111,42 111,42 / 180 = 0,61... ), ( 180 +39,82 = 219,82 219,82/360= 0,61... The formula shows the method of calculating of the distance of the city Mecca to the poles and to the equinox line in both ways.)
The Golden Ratio (number of the creation of design and esthetic) = Phi constant = 0,61...

Mecca’s distance to the poles / The distance between North and South poles = 0,61...

Mecca’s distance to the North Pole / Mecca’s distance to the South Pole = 0,61...

Mecca’s distance (west) to the equinox line / The Earth’s perimeter = 0,61...

Mecca’s distance (west) to the equinox line / Mecca’s distance (east) to the equinox line = 0,61...

The inner ratios of the lines that passes through Mecca and combining the poles and the equinoxes = 0,61...

In the verse that tells about Mecca and Kaaba (3:96) the number of the letters until the word Mecca (29) / The number of the verse’s total letters (47) = 0,61...

If we consider the map of longitudes and latitudes as a painting of an artist, the world map will be a divine painting; the one which’s deepness will never end, a living painting. If we want to show the main Golden Raito point in a world map which is designed by the values of the longitudes and latitudes in the program of the Phimatrix (An American programmed which helps to show the golden ratios of the paintings), it will show us Mecca. The numeric values that the longitudes and the latitudes can take as the Golden Raito formula can only be performed in a single point in the world. The coordinates under the Ecuador or the west of the Greenwich are called as – (minus). Because of that the earth can only have one golden ratio point and Great God choose this as Mecca and then he has designed the verse in the Holy Quran by the Golden Ratio and he never let this area clear away.
(3:96) “The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings:”

This holy city’s name is only used only once in whole Quran. In the verse it talks about the existence of the evidences that conduces people believes in this area. One of the evidences is; the area is a Golden Ratio point. Another miracle that cannot be a coincidence shows it self in the verse. Until the word Mecca (Mecca word included) the number of the letters are 29 and 47 is the number of the letters in the whole verse. We will do it like we have done in the world map, without any force. The rate of the number of the letters until the word Mecca to the number of the whole letters in the verse is 0,61 the golden ratio. If a word more or less the ratio will be broken down. We have done the same calculation in the latitude and longitude map of the world; The distance until Mecca to the whole distance.


It is a miracle that Mecca’s / Kaaba’s place on earth is designed by the verse in the Holy Quran, Muslim’s holy book for over 14 centuries and it states that in this holy area the evidences are lurked in that will cause communities’ searching for the right way. It proves that it is written by a force that knows the golden ratio, can see the earth from the space and knows the measurements that are accepted in the future, knows math very well, God.
Besides it is known that the surface is covered with the liquid energy canals that are called The Ley Lines. The lines are named like "The world`s energy", "The telluric energy" or the "Global Bioenergetics". These lines are a kind of energy, partly from the surface`s magnetic power, that is assumed, which travels the whole world on a linear way. This term is firstly used by an English researcher named Alfred Watkins in 1925, who "rediscovered" these lines.
The Holy Rivers that is in myths, actually expresses the ley lines, "the surface chakras". One of the most powerful areas of these chakras is in Mecca, the holy lands.
This discovery is made by the 3d graphic artist, director who made some works that are world-wide famous, Erdem Çetinkaya. Right now his work of documentary-movie which includes the miracle of Kaaba and the miracles named “Holy Mysteries”.

Ben Masada    [18759.   Posted 29-Nov-2008 Sat 14:57]
  =========================================
+++ WERE THERE TWO DIFFERENT JESUSES? +++
=========================================

When Luke wrote the book of Acts to Theophilus, he guaranteed him that he had dealt with ALL that Jesus did and taught until the end of his life on
earth. (Acts 1:1,2) If Luke is someone worthy believing, there must be something wrong with Matthew.

1. I am not talking about the huge difference in the genealogy of Jesus. (Mat. 1:1-17)

2. I am not talking about the anxiety of Mary to explain her pregnancy without having yet slept with Joseph. (Mat. 1:18-25)

3. I am not talking about the Astrologers from the East who came to worship the new-born king of the Jews. (Mat. 2:1,2)

4. I am not talking about the star that stood still over the place where the child was. (Mat. 2:9-11)

5. I am not talking about the flight with the child to Egypt. (Mat. 2:13-15)

6. I am not talking about the slaughtering of the innocent under the age of two with the Herodian intent to catch Jesus. (Mat. 2:16-18)

7. I am not talking about a lot of other things that Luke ignored in his accurate account of EVERYTHING about Jesus to Theophilus.

Here`s what I am talking about: While the Jesus of Matthew was still in Egypt, waiting for Herod to die, the Jesus of Luke was born, circumcised after eight days, presented in the Temple on the 33rd day, and immediately after these requirements of the Law, the family headed back to Nazareth. (Luke 2:21,22,39)

In the meantime, the Jesus of Matthew was still trapped in Egypt, waiting for the word of the "angel" with the news that Herod had finally died. Perhaps in order to spare the embarrassment, the age of this Jesus is omitted.

Therefore, how many Jesuses were there? If there was but one, either gospel writer is lying or neither ever met each other. But then again, how about the spirit that inspired the revelation? I think Christianity will better off if we don`t remove that stone. The smell will be too strong.

Ben

Ben Masada    [18758.   Posted 27-Nov-2008 Thu 07:18]
  ===================================
+++ THE METAMORPHOSE OF APOLLOS +++
===================================

The text is in Acts 18:24-28.

The Sect of the Nazarenes was blooming in Alexandria. Apollos, a Nazarene
Jew from Alexandria had decided to go on a trip North to Ephesus. Being
well-known as a charismatic and eloquent Teacher in the Scriptures, he was
invited to deliver the Shabbat sermon in the local Nazarene Synagogue. The
text says that he would speak about Jesus with accuracy. (Acts 18:25)

It happens that on that same day, a couple of former Jews called Aquila and Priscilla were attending services at the same Synagogue. The couple had recently arrived from Italy because of a decree signed by Claudius Caesar, that would expell all Jews from Rome. (Acts 18:2) Their trade was
Tentmaking. Since Paul was also a Tentmaker, they somehow met, got together, and Paul succeeded to convert them. (Acts 18:1-3)

So, back to the Nazarene Synagogue of Ephesus, Aquila and Priscilla realized that there was something wrong with Apollos` sermon. He would not
mention even once that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he had
resurrected. After the services, they invited Apollos to their home, converted him to the Pauline way they believed about Jesus, and the Apollos who returned was no longer the same who had left. He would now preach that Jesus was the Messiah. (Acts 18:28) He was still charismatic and eloquent, but the previous accuracy about Jesus was no longer the same. Apollos had completely metamorphosed.

The point here for discussion is: If Apollos was an expert in the Scriptures, and a member of the Sect of the Nazarenes, how come he had to
know from Christians all those things about Jesus? The obvious conclusion
is that the whole thing had been fabricated by Paul about 30 years after
Jesus` death.

Now, please, kindly share with me your comments.

Ben

Ben Masada    [18757.   Posted 26-Nov-2008 Wed 18:49]
  =============================
+++ THE PAULINE PARADOX +++
=============================

When Paul started preaching about Jesus as the Messiah and son of God, he
never realized that he had created a huge paradox.

You see, for Jesus to be the Messiah, he had to be a biological son of Joseph`s, who was the one from the Tribe of Judah. Mary was from the Tribe
of Levi. She was of the family of Elizabeth, a descendant of Aaron, the
Levite. (Luke 1:5,36)

Since Jesus is also claimed to be son of God, he could not have been the
Messiah, because God is not subject to human genealogies.

On the other hand, if Christians decide to grab the chance of at least make of Jesus the Messiah by agreeing that he was Joseph`s biological son,
he could not be son of God; and here the situation gets worse, because even the doctrine of the Trinity will collapse.

That`s indeed a paradox that can be conceived only by faith, which requires no explanation. But then again, where faith begins, knowledge ends; and for lack of knowledge people perish. (Hosea 4:6)

Now, if there is anyone out there with enough wisdom to unriddle this Pauline paradox, I`ll be happy to take off my hat to him or her. In the meantime, the Sphinx rests among the Egyptian pyramids while waiting for the passers-by. Good luck!

Ben

LIBERTY STINK    [18756.   Posted 14-Nov-2008 Fri 04:46]
  YET MORE acid attacks on Afghan girls!

And the outrage at such a barbaric act carried out against their Muslim Sisters (with justification for the act being Islamic Sharia Law) from all those peace-loving, compassionate, moderate British Muslims (or indeed Globally) is deafening!

I guess cartoons and books are far more sinful and insulting to them then than the purposeful disfiguring of 2 Muslim children, as we can`t shut the noise up from Muslims when someone draws or writes something (or names a teddy bear).

LIBERTY STINK    [18755.   Posted 11-Nov-2008 Tue 13:26]
  So now we have a 13 year old girl used as a suicide bomber, to mostly kill other children, in Iraq.

But lets blame the evil West again and apologise for barbaric Islamists and their religion of peace!

Where are the rallies and marches against such atrocity throughtout the Muslim and (increasingly Muslim anyway) non-Muslim lands FROM Muslims?
Or are cartoons and books bigger sins to them?

LIBERTY STINK    [18754.   Posted 27-Jun-2008 Fri 10:14]
  ------POLICE sniffer dogs trained to spot terrorists at railway stations may no longer come into contact with Muslim passengers – after complaints that it is against the suspects’ religion.-----


Despite the ONLY... I repeat...ONLY terrorist threat we face comes from Muslims!

Fuck `em! Plane tickets are cheap nowadays and sadly Muslim countries are many...so go there if a dog doing its job to safeguard us ALL offends you so.

LIBERTY STINK    [18753.   Posted 8-May-2008 Thu 15:03]
  -----The biggest anguishes and distresses which are effecting the lives in this age are low morality, not being mindful of each other’s right, neglecting real worship of God.-----


Translation time!

----low morality----

Dreadful Homosexuals and people who have sex without being married or Muslim and non-Muslim together.



----not being mindful of each other’s right----

Your right to do and say whatever you want in the name of your religion and to those against it.



-----neglecting real worship of God-----

The REAL worship of God is of course only through Islam by being a Muslim.



------The biggest anguishes and distresses which are effecting the lives in this age are-----

ARE...Nutty religious freaks who live next door to you while plotting to blow up buses, trains, nightclubs, airports and airplanes in the name of Islam.

PromisedMESSIAH    [18752.   Posted 8-May-2008 Thu 03:15]
  Sincere Prayer has to Produce Courtesy and High Morals.
========================================================

Peace be upon you!

Great effort is required to absorb the grace of God. A struggle is needed, only then God quickly come to His servants, accepts their efforts, blesses them, and gives them the strength to do acts which attract His pleasure. Allah says: And those who strive in Our path, We will surely guide them in Our ways….(70:29)

The most important way to change the self to good and get nearness to God is to pay attention to offer Prayer / Salat.

Surely Prayer restrains (one) from indecency and manifest evil….. (46:29) . But we observe some people who offer Prayer, their attitude towards others is not so good. One may think what is benefit of Prayer then?

Fault is not with the Prayer. Meeting the conditions of Prayer is very important as is said in early part of (46:29) : Establish the Prayer….. The holy prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) has directed that when you stand to offer salat, bear in mind as if you are seeing God or at least consider that God is watching you.

The understanding and believe that God is seeing me and reads my mind, makes a person very careful in conduct. God can not be deceived; He knows which of one’s Prayer is being offered with sincerity, for His sake and to make the self pure. He knows which Prayer is just a show off.

God does not only watch while one offer Prayer but He also watches one’s daily talks and tasks. Thus, it is essential to keep each of deeds right so that Prayer is accepted. In these days, God is being forgotten and to bring about the spiritual revolution the blessed promised reformer (mta.tv) has stressed to offer Prayer for positive changes in self.

Prayer are the measure of one’s courtesy and state of moral. And also, high morals can be viewed as fruits of one’s Prayer.

The holy prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said that charity keeps the distress away….. The biggest anguishes and distresses which are effecting the lives in this age are low morality, not being mindful of each other’s right, neglecting real worship of God. Hence, giving charity, according to one’s capacity will result in absorbing God’s blessings. Again, like the Prayer, charity is to please God, not people.

Alongwith offering Prayer and charity, the other essentials are treating others with kindness and courtesy, safeguarding the trusts, fulfilling the commitments, talking truth and without any twists, avoiding and praying against jealousy which burns human from within, staying away from absurdities of all types which throw a person into the lap of Satan. To help achieve these virtues and spiritual enhancement, the institution of Ahmadiyya Caliphate is the timely blessing of God. The holy Caliph prays may everyone be aware of their reponsiblities and continue to get blessings.

LIBERTY STINK    [18751.   Posted 4-May-2008 Sun 02:31]
  Yeah yeah yeah...Waffle waffle, bullcrap.

I`ll go by what happens in the real world, in real life, allaround the globe.

"""It reported that last year in Sulaymaniyah, a city of 1 million people, there were 407 reported offences, beheadings, beatings, deaths through "family problems", and threats of honour killings, police in Karbala recently revealed 25 reports of rape.

Honour killings have been blocked by fundamentalists.
Honour killings are not actually a crime in the eyes of the government, said Houzan Mahmoud, who has had a fatwa on her head since raising a petition against the introduction of sharia law in Kurdistan.

In the past five years it is has got [much] worse, we have been pushed back to the dark ages.
Women are being beheaded for taking their veil off. Self immolation is rising – women are left with no choice.
Sharia law is being used to underpin government rule, denying women their most basic human rights."""


Just a normal day under Islamic rule.

PromisedMESSIAH    [18750.   Posted 28-Apr-2008 Mon 11:49]
  IN A mosque, regardless of wordly positions, people stand together as one entity in one place, humbly in presence of Allah to worship Him. It increases the grace of His blessings more than before. Hence, reward of offering a prayer in mosque is twenty seven times greater, according to holy prophet of Islam.

Reward of each deed is dependent upon its intention, according to another hadith. It means in a mosque one must join others in worship without discriminatory feelings against others to get high rewards. For those who forget real object of prayer /salat woe is said (107:5) .

It is very important to purify one’s thoughts to draw benefits from salat / prayer. Point is explained by the Ahmadiyya promised messiah as : Salat during which the heart is wandering somewhere, thoughts are elsewhere and the mouth is uttering something else is a curse. It is thrown back and is not accepted…..Only that salat is real which gives pleasure. Such a salat is a source of generating hatred for sin. This is very salat about which it is said that it is the zenith of a believer and is a source of progression for a believer.

Religious Watch    [18749.   Posted 21-Apr-2008 Mon 10:03]
  loveandpeace

A basic feature of most religions is that, to various degrees, they teach people to be unquestioningly faithful to people supposedly speaking for god.

So then it depends how good these spokespeople are, as to whether the followers are extreme or moderate, saints or terrorists.

Even if a religion isn`t directly responsible for the action of adherants who don`t follow the `correct` message, they should be held to account for teaching children to grow up to be unthinkingly obedient. This is just asking for trouble.

loveandpeace    [18748.   Posted 20-Apr-2008 Sun 03:18]
  Liberty Stink:

I agree with you. It is wrong and madness for a religious "revert" to be targeted in any shape or form as you report, even in a Muslim country.

It is also appalling and to be condemned if what you say is true that this young man was murdered for his views even if they were blasphemous.

This is NOT Islamic at all! It’s the action of some mad, deranged ignorant mob that happen to call themselves Muslims. Consider this: if there is a God as most religions claim and that he is a God of peace/love/mercy, would He really advocate such mindless anger fuelled actions in His name. The answer, plain to see, is no he would not. This fundamental understanding of all religions is the starting point in knowing God…all else is man made false teachings.

A famous point in the Islamic history was when Muhammad returned finally to Mecca from exile and upon his arrival, he simply forgave all those who had persecuted him and even killed his relations. In fact he forgave the whole of Mecca, for all their wrong acts of persecuting the early Muslims. This, my friend, is true Islam, not the madness you and i are seeing around us!

Let our energies target the mindless minds of the human beings around us, not the Holy Scriptures or its teachings.

Justice has to prevail and the truth will win, as always.

LIBERTY STINK    [18747.   Posted 19-Apr-2008 Sat 16:00]
  ----A British teacher killed in Somalia was targeted because he had converted from Islam to Christianity, his widow has claimed.---

NO NO NO. Shame on you `Melon farmers` for this Islamophobic publishing!
This was just a coincidental random act and nothing to do with Islam!
As always.

LIBERTY STINK    [18746.   Posted 17-Apr-2008 Thu 04:40]
  ---- Jagdish Kumar, a 22-year-old worker at a leather factory in Karachi, was murdered by his colleagues after he allegedly passed blasphemous remarks during a debate on religion.----

The normal, average, everyday members of `the religion of peace and tolerance` strike again.

Not clerics or spiritual leaders, not known extremists...Just your normal, run of the mill, working stiff Muslims.
You know I bet they were the classic examples of those `moderates` we hear of every day...until.........

PromisedMESSIAH    [18745.   Posted 3-Apr-2008 Thu 08:12]
  ROLE OF MORALITY FOR THE SURVIVAL OF A RELGION
**********************************************
1- Morality is virtually essential for the survival of religion itself……When moral standards are lowered, religion is the first to suffer.

2- Dishonesty and immorality corrode even the most powerful man-made edifices of law and constitution…….The spiritual edifices of religion are likewise corroded and turned to dust by the dry rot of immorality……This is the key to the understanding of decadence at all levels of religious beliefs and practices.

3- The unity of God is split and continues to be splintered because of lowering standards of morality……Idolatory begins to replace the Unity of God, and idols occupy the houses of God turning them into temples.

4- Deep below such destructive phenomenon, one will always find the worms of dishonesty at work……Dishonesty becomes a deadly poison when it works at the level of leadership, but no deadlier poison can be conceived than dishonesty WHEN it works at the level of religious leadership……In the name of God, they play havoc with the peace of His creation The throne of God is occupied by the pseudo-gods of religious hierarchy.

Therefore :

It would be much wiser to judge religions at their nascent stage rather than latter, when through human interpolation they become mere ruins of their noble and humble beginning.

PromisedMESSIAH    [18744.   Posted 3-Apr-2008 Thu 07:53]
  ==============================================================
REFLECTIONS OF THE DIVINE ATTRIBUTE OF FORBEARANCE (AL-HALEEM)
==============================================================
Peace be upon you!

1= God has asked the believers to imbue His Divine attributes on human level. His Prophets are given the greatest capability for this.
***
2= The-Forebearing is among divine attributes Forebearance connotes compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, kindness and suppressing anger. These qualities are vital for society and for spirituality….The days and years of Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on Him) were full of instances of forebearances.
***
3= For example: Once a man, during talk, kept touching the beard of holy prophets . The companion Hadhrat Umar (r.a) was very upset at this show of disrespect but the blessed Holy Prophet instructed him not to be harsh with visiting man.
***
4= Zaid ibn Su`nah, a great jewish scholar in the time of holy prophet, narrated : He recognized all but two signs of prophethood when he saw the face of holy prophet. Two signs which were not immediately evident to him were: i-Holy prophet.s forebearance would precede his rasheness. ii- His forebearance would increase upon facing intense rashness…One day a Bedouin came to prophet and said that a group of his people had accepted Islam and he used to tell them by embracing this faith there would be great increase in their provisions. Now because of no rain, there was famine and he feared his people would leave Islam as they came in with greed… The Bedouin requested for their help.The Holy Prophet looked to hadhrat Ali but he informed no supplies could be given…The narrator Zaid, the scholar, offered the holy prophet to rent him a specific palm (dates) garden for a ceratin time for quick relief….Instead the holy prophet told Zaid that he would rent him a fix amount of date-fruit until such period from unspecified gardens……A pact was agreed and Zaid paid for particular dates for a fixed time…. The holy prophet gave the payment to the man with instruction to help his people with fairness.Just few days before the expiry of fixed period Zaid came to holy prophet and seized him by his dress and angrily said: why do not you pay back my dues?.......Zaid saw that such attitude of his was angrily challenged by hadhrat Umar …But the holy prophet, who was looking at Zaid quietly and patiently said: Umar! Instead of being angry, you should pay off his loan well. Give him extra saa` (44 Kg) because you terrified him. Order was obeyed…….At this point Zaid disclosed his identity to hadrat Umar and told him that he deliberately talked to holy prophet in that since he wanted to check the two signs of forebearnace; preceding of forebearance upon his rash and increasing of forebearance on encountering excessive rashness. He found these two signs, too, in holy prophet. He embraced the faith and announced to donate half of his wealth for it.
***
5= The holy prophet always resolved family matters with wisdom and no annoyance.
***
6= His blessed model was for ever to be followed and practiced. Only listening, reading and enjoying about it is not the goal….Sometimes people are cruel to their servants…. Some people are not kind to wives and are extendedly brutal….Teaching of the kind and gentle conduct is for practice.
***
7= In an incident, at the victory of Mecca, pardon was sought for a fled person Safwan. The blessed holy prophet granted it. The fled man sent a message that a token of assurance be given. He was given a turban of the holy prophet which he had on when he entered in Mecca as victorious. Safwan was assured of the forebearance of the holy prophet.
***
8= The real champion is not one who beat an opponent, rather a real champion is one who controls himself when angered….Said the blessed holy prophet……Once He saw two enraged men fighting. He said he knew the words which can dissipate their anger; these are : I seek refuge with Allah from accursed satan…He directed that if a standing angry person sits or sitting angry person lies down the anger will go away…..He never felt anger on any personal issue but only on Divine matters.
***
9= A man complained that he always did good to his relatives but always got bad reaction The blessed holy prophet said his actions covered the meanness of his relatives and as long as he is firm on his way Allah.s help would be with him.He said Allah liked the two qualities of forebearance and dignity.
***
10= Forebearance connotes compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, kindness and suppressing anger. These qualities are vital for society and for spirituality.
***
11= According to holy caliph, forebearance was also shown by the holy promised messiah ( mta.tv ) who once said: With the exception of indecency all weaknesses and petulant behavior peculiar to women should be tolerated. It is shameful that a man should fight a woman. He never spoke harshly to anyone. His opponents would come by and use extremely rude language which he would never react to. Instead, he prayed for them. His compassion was keen and he subdued the rage…..He taught ( as the blessed holy prophet commanded ) to tolerate the abuse of a guest as he was not among followers.
***
12= The most supreme reflecton of the divine attribute The-Forebearing (Al-Haleem ) was the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). In his footsteps, the Promised Messiah (on whom peace) has shown blessed models for reformation. May Allah enable all to imbue divine attributes.
LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE.....Thanks

LIBERTY STINK    [18743.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 11:47]
  LMAO! You run away crying.
You don`t reply because you`ve been shown up to be as weak and irrelevant as what you post.

But just remember the next time you post ignorant, farcical garbage as truth and fact I`ll be there. EVERY SINGLE TIME.
To put a stop to the apologists who are as much a danger to this country as the Islamists they cuddle up to.
MF...tis a disgrace.

DarkAngel5    [18742.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 10:18]
  No Liberty Stink, I am not ignoring your arguments, I am ignoring YOU because you are incapable of having an adult conversation.

When you learn to debate in a sensible and rational manner, and not come accross like some angry schoolchild, I may consider your posts worthy of responding to.

In the meantime I shall bid you good day, feel free to post what you like in response, I won`t be reading them.

Religious Watch    [18741.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:40]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

So in fact Darkangel you are going to ignore all the facts I posted against you.

Suits me. The silence speaks volumes.

When you actually have anything to back up your laughable, apologist, post you made and can counter anything I said in reply please do. Until then you have nothing valid to say or add.

Running away crying about `rudeness` still means you are just running away.
Because you hoped either no one would answer your utterly wrong points or they`d agree with you as this place is full of such apologists as your less than good self.

But unfortunately for you you got me answering you. And your remarks were shown up for what they ALL were. Utterly incorrect on every level.

here you go I`ll make it less rude for you, see if you still run away from answering.




------Half the problem with Islam that i can see is that most of its followers are from 3rd world countries who don`t know better. I`m fairly sure that if these backwards folks followed christianity they would be just as bad.---


I must have missed all these African Catholic suicide bombers, convert killers and stoning mobs calling out God`s name as they slice a guys head off like a pig.

Even being raised in the UK and going to University does not stop you strapping a bomb to yourself to claim your virgins when Islam comes a calling.



-----You`ve only got to look at those preachers in the deep south of the US to see that.----

Er....No actually.

Even Jerry Falwell are not in the same league of murderous hate and violence loving exhaltation as many a Muslim cleric we have seen and heard!
Sorry. But you`re utterly and completely wrong.

Show me even one American preacher who calls for people who offended God or Jesus to be beheaded...
Show me one who has openly preached of other religions as Pigs and monkeys....
Show me one who has literally called for homosexuals to be executed...
Show me one who preachers converts away from Christiaity should be murdered...
Show me one who defends and even instructs wife beating...
Show me one who has defended and praised suicide bombing or indeed warfare!

And you don`t have to go to the Deep South of anything to hear all that said by Muslim preachers as ALL that is pretty much daily sermons as normal even in `moderate` UK mosques as we have seen!



------It basically took all the worst parts assosiated with Islam and made out it was all like that.----

No, It took all the general and currently active all over the world aspects of Islam and made it look, correctly, that a lot if not most of Islam is like that.
Seems fair to me.
As a simple look on the Internet any day of the week will show you.


And we can even compare like with like right now.
Scorsese? Monty Python? Sinead O`Connor? `Jerry Springer the Opera` writers?
All fine and dandy and not in fear or hiding for their lives.

Wilders?

Surrounded by six bodyguards, has received 600 death threats, sometimes he and his wife have been moved into prison cells for their safety and he currently has a fatwa for his death on his head.

Yeah....No difference is there?




WELL????



And again you show an utter lack of any understanding about the things you try to debate.

------terrorist atrocities being carried out in Northern Ireland up until a few years ago. ----

????????
Sorry? What religion was this then? Catholicism?
Strange then that a Catholic in Africa say had no interest whatsoever in a United Ireland.
Northern Ireland was a political war. It just so happened it was the Catholics that wanted to be joined to the rest of Ireland.
But the fight was for a united Ireland...IT WAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH SPREADING ANY KIND OF RELIGION, DOCTRINE, OR INVOLVED ANY OTHER CATHOLICS WHO HAD NO LINKS TO IRELAND!!
It was an Irish cause...not a Catholic Church cause! Yes?? Right.

Dear me.

Religious Watch    [18740.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:39]
  
Moved post from DarkAngel

Liberty Stink

last response to me was just plain rude. If you are incapable of debating in a calm and rational manner then why should anyone wish to discuss anything further with you?

Secondly, if you want evidence of badly behaved christians, just look at all the terrorist atrocities being carried out in Northern Ireland up until a few years ago. What about those loonies in the US who go around blowing up abortion clinincs and murdering doctors?

Have you actually read the bible? A lot of it is fairly unpleasant.

Again, I have no love for that particular religion, no more than any other. But the way you rant and rave on occaisions doesn`t exactly show non-theists or libertarians in a very postive light now does it?

Might I suggest taking a deep breath and counting to ten before responding in future?

Religious Watch    [18739.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:38]
  
Moved post from Phantom

Stink,
Will you please give it a rest.
You promised to leave this board.
Stick to your word.

Religious Watch    [18738.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:37]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

Oh dear.

------Half the problem with Islam that i can see is that most of its followers are from 3rd world countries who don`t know better. I`m fairly sure that if these backwards folks followed christianity they would be just as bad.---


WHAT?! I must have missed all these African Catholic suicide bombers, convert killers and stoning mobs calling out God`s name as they slice a guys head off like a pig.

And it seems selective memory loss is rampant...Even being raised in the UK and going to University does not stop you strapping a bomb to yourself to claim your virgins when Islam comes a calling.

So enough of the apologist rubbish please.


-----You`ve only got to look at those preachers in the deep south of the US to see that.----

Er....No actually.
How pissed am I that you make me defend nutty Baptists, Catholics and the rest!
Even fucking scum like Jerry Falwell are not in the same league of murderous hate and violence loving exhaltation as many a Muslim cleric we have seen and heard!
Sorry. But you`re utterly and completely wrong.
Even if we compare fanatics like Falwell...You`re STILL wrong.

Show me even one American preacher who calls for people who offended God or Jesus to be beheaded...
Show me one who has openly preached of other religions as Pigs and monkeys....
Show me one who has literally called for homosexuals to be executed...
Show me one who preachers converts away from Christiaity should be murdered...
Show me one who defends and even instructs wife beating...
Show me one who has defended and praised suicide bombing or indeed warfare!

Because if not then you`re flat out wrong.
And you don`t have to go to the Deep South of anything to hear all that said by Muslim preachers as ALL that is pretty much daily sermons as normal even in `moderate` UK mosques as we have seen!

Nothing remotely, in the 21st century, compares.
IF Islam goes through a reformation like Christianity did then maybe you won`t be so wrong some day.

But until then......


------It basically took all the worst parts assosiated with Islam and made out it was all like that.----

No, It took all the general and currently active all over the world aspects of Islam and made it look, correctly, that a lot if not most of Islam is like that.
Seems fair to me. As a simple look on the Internet any day of the week will show you.


And we can even compare like with like right now.
Scorsese? Monty Python? Sinead O`Connor? `Jerry Springer the Opera` writers?
All fine and dandy and not in fear or hiding for their lives.

Wilders?

Surrounded by six bodyguards, has received 600 death threats, sometimes he and his wife have been moved into prison cells for their safety and he currently has a fatwa for his death on his head.

Yeah....No difference is there?

Religious Watch    [18737.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:36]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

http://www.iheu.org/node/3123

Just in case you missed this little news. Strange really given how so forthright you all are over `freedoms`.

"""For the past eleven years the organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) has been tightening its grip on the throat of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Yesterday, 28 March 2008, they finally killed it.

With the support of their allies including China, Russia and Cuba (none well-known for their defence of human rights) the Islamic States succeeded in forcing through an amendment to a resolution on Freedom of Expression that has turned the entire concept on its head.

The UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression will now be required to report on the “abuse” of this most cherished freedom by anyone who, for example, dares speak out against Sharia laws that require women to be stoned to death for adultery or young men to be hanged for being gay, or against the marriage of girls as young as nine, as in Iran.

There has been a seismic shift in the balance of power in the UN system. For over a decade the Islamic States have been flexing their muscles. Yesterday they struck. There can no longer be any pretence that the Human Rights Council can defend human rights.

The moral leadership of the UN system has moved from the States who created the UN in the aftermath of the Second World War, to the Islamic States, whose allegiance is to a narrow, medieval worldview defined exclusively in terms of man’s duties towards Allah.

Yesterday’s attack by the Islamists, led by Pakistan, had the subtlety of a thin-bladed knife slipped silently under the ribs of the Human Rights Council.

For the first time in the 60 year history of UN Human Rights bodies, a fundamental human right has been limited simply because of the possible violent reaction by the enemies of human rights.

The violence we have seen played out in reaction to the Danish cartoons is thus excused by the Council – it was the cartoonists whose freedom of expression needed to be regulated. And Theo van Gogh can be deemed responsible for his own death.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights died yesterday. Who knows when, or if, it can ever be revived.

I used to wonder what States who felt it necessary to kill people because they change their religion thought they were doing in the Human Rights Council. Now I know.

Roy W Brown
Geneva, 29 March 2008 """


But hey! Remember I`m a supposed racist, I`m wrong about being so `obsessed` about peaceful Islam and of course you still have to fight the good fight against a censored "Manhunt 2" and a crisp advert.

Religious Watch    [18736.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:34]
  
Moved post from DrakAngel

Just seen that Dutch film about Islam "Fitna" or whatever it was called.

I can see why it caused a bit of a furore, to be honest with you it was rather like those BNP propaganda videos, only a lot less subtle. It basically took all the worst parts assosiated with Islam and made out it was all like that.

Half the problem with Islam that i can see is that most of its followers are from 3rd world countries who don`t know better. I`m fairly sure that if these backwards folks followed christianity they would be just as bad.

You`ve only got to look at those preachers in the deep south of the US to see that.

I don`t think that the film should be banned, I think it should be shown and judged on its own merits.

Religious Watch    [18735.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:33]
  
Moved post from DarkAngel

Liberty Stink.

You are "Pat Condell" and I claim my £5!!!!

:D

Religious Watch    [18734.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:32]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

------The UK`s treatment of asylum seekers falls seriously below the standards of a civilised society, a report says.
-----


OH PLEASE!!
Strange then how so fucking many keep flooding in then!
Can anyone name a softer, weaker, bend over and take it, country as far as migrants go?

And the latest statistics show we `benefit` from just 28p a week per migrant as far as the economy goes.
Which is then wiped out by the underlying costs and massive damage done to communities (no go areas?...oh yes).
Schools (almost all London schools now have a minority of English speaking pupils).
Hospitals (maternity units all over the country having to close as they are full...and seeing as the average British family now has LESS children I think we know why they are full)
Councils spending untold millions on translating and translators.
And dark ages religions gaining political and social power by the influx of migrant delusionists (both Islam and Catholicism...the worst religions the world still cradles...have had numbers massively boosted by migrants).

"falls seriously below the standards of a civilised society"?
Yeah, I would say that`s correct in how this Government treats it`s own people!

Religious Watch    [18733.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:29]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

ARE WE WAKING UP YET!?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/5655041.html

WORLDWIDE Blasphemy Law, with a MASSIVE Islamic bias, has been passed by the U.N.

Welcome to your future. You can remove the blinkers now. If you want.

dano    [18732.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 06:09]
  Liberty Stink...

"Leftists (read communists) side with Islam as it`s the best weapon they have to destroy The Western capitalist democracies (they all live in)."

Not really. They side with Islam because they see it as being oppressed by the West.

"Scumbags like Livingstone and the fetid Galloway support Islam because it has the same enemy they do!
Democracy. The West. Capitalism."

Dunno about Livingstone but Galloway supports Islam because Muslims are his favourite oppressed minority of the day. Not that he`s actually done much for them, least of all in his consituancy of Bethnel Green where once he got elected he fucked off and went on Celeb Big Brother.
I`ve spoken to a few Muslims who think he got elected on the anti-war ticket and now is doing fuck all.

LIBERTY STINK    [18731.   Posted 31-Mar-2008 Mon 17:36]
  Leftists (read communists) side with Islam as it`s the best weapon they have to destroy The Western capitalist democracies (they all live in).

Why was it CHINA, RUSSIA and CUBA who backed the Islamists in their Islam based and biased worldwide blasphemy law?? Because they are communist countries.

Scumbags like Livingstone and the fetid Galloway support Islam because it has the same enemy they do!
Democracy. The West. Capitalism.
Not that they will ever fuck off and live in a Communist state though. Oh no. Perks are not as good.
Another thing they share with Islamists in The West.

dano    [18730.   Posted 31-Mar-2008 Mon 05:10]
  Re: The furore over the Dutch MP Geert Wilder`s anti-Islam film.

There are two seperate issues here. Whether the film is racist hatred and will lead to attacks on Muslims and whether it offends the religious sensibilities and beliefs of Muslims.
The first issue is worthy of debate the second is irrelevant. Nothing should ever be banned mearly for offending someone`s religious beliefs and sensibilities.
I notice many left-wing groups both in Holland and here (check www.Islamophobia-Watch.com to see what I mean) are campaigning against the film presuambly to try and get it banned. They argue it`s racism against Muslims and could lead to attacks. Obviously they believe anyone who will see it will want to go and thump the first person they see in the street who looks remotely like a Muslim. So people need to be stopped from seeing it for their own good.
Other left-wingers have condemed it for offending Muslims` beliefs. Hold on many left-wingers didn`t care Jerry Springer The Opera offended Christians. And they told the protestors trying to get Life Of Brain banned back in the 1970s to get a life.
Not that I disagree with that but I wonder why the double standards. Well here`s the reason. Bare with me on this one.
To many on the hard line socialist Left offending Muslims is seen in a totally different context to offending Christians. This is because Muslims are seen by many on the hard line socialist Left as victims of oppresion and by offending their beliefs one is only heaping more oppresion on them.
The Danish cartoons and this film is seen in the same way as dropping bombs on Iraqis, in the same way as Israel blowing up Palestinians and the same way as locking Muslims up for days on end without charge.
Had Jerry Springer The Opera featured the prophet Mohameed or Alah the same way it featured Jesus many on the hard line Left would have protested for it to be banned as they would have seen it as an act of oppresion against an oppressed minority group that practice and oppressed religion.
It also comes down to the fact Islam is a minority religion and Christianity is still seen as a majority religion. Christianity is seen by many on the hard Left as the religion that still has all the power and the religion practiced by warmongers like George Bush in the White House.
Therefore they don`t see a problem (and niether do I but not for those reasons) with having a go at Christanity and offending Christians because to them it`s only offending the beliefs of the powerful and the strong. They can defend themselves.
But because Islam is seen by the hard Left as a minority religion and the religion of those without any power and of the oppressed, the weak and the powerless offending Islam and the beliefs of Muslims is seen as offending the oppressed, the weak, the defencless and therefore an act of oppression.

I also have to say the condemnation of things which offend Muslims is far louder from some Muslims than it is from Christians who are offended.
If someone made a film about how Christianity is to blame for war (pointing the fingre at the faith of George Bush) and oppresion of other religions (mainly Islam) you might get a few nutters from Christian Voice and Mediawatch UK writing strongly worded letters to the BBC, Ofcom and the Daily Mail. But here we have blood red anger and threats of death.
Heck the most "violent" thing Christian protestors did amid the BBC Jerry Springer opera fuss was burn their licence fees.
This is because many Muslims take their offence in a totally different context to the way Christians take offence. They see it as an attack on them personally and an act of Western imperalistic oppresion. It`s the same as dropping bombs and locking people up without trial to them.

LIBERTY STINK    [18729.   Posted 31-Mar-2008 Mon 05:07]
  http://www.iheu.org/node/3123

Just in case you missed this little news.

"""For the past eleven years the organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) has been tightening its grip on the throat of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Yesterday, 28 March 2008, they finally killed it.

With the support of their allies including China, Russia and Cuba (none well-known for their defence of human rights) the Islamic States succeeded in forcing through an amendment to a resolution on Freedom of Expression that has turned the entire concept on its head.

The UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression will now be required to report on the “abuse” of this most cherished freedom by anyone who, for example, dares speak out against Sharia laws that require women to be stoned to death for adultery or young men to be hanged for being gay, or against the marriage of girls as young as nine, as in Iran.

There has been a seismic shift in the balance of power in the UN system. For over a decade the Islamic States have been flexing their muscles. Yesterday they struck. There can no longer be any pretence that the Human Rights Council can defend human rights.

The moral leadership of the UN system has moved from the States who created the UN in the aftermath of the Second World War, to the Islamic States, whose allegiance is to a narrow, medieval worldview defined exclusively in terms of man’s duties towards Allah.

Yesterday’s attack by the Islamists, led by Pakistan, had the subtlety of a thin-bladed knife slipped silently under the ribs of the Human Rights Council.

For the first time in the 60 year history of UN Human Rights bodies, a fundamental human right has been limited simply because of the possible violent reaction by the enemies of human rights.

The violence we have seen played out in reaction to the Danish cartoons is thus excused by the Council – it was the cartoonists whose freedom of expression needed to be regulated. And Theo van Gogh can be deemed responsible for his own death.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights died yesterday. Who knows when, or if, it can ever be revived.

I used to wonder what States who felt it necessary to kill people because they change their religion thought they were doing in the Human Rights Council. Now I know.

Roy W Brown
Geneva, 29 March 2008 """

Religious Watch    [18728.   Posted 29-Mar-2008 Sat 11:24]
  Liberty Stink

Well the Saudis have set a good example and refused to legislate along the lines of the UN recommendation. It seems that they cannot even recognise other religions much less give them rights.

If Saudi can ignore the resolution then surely the rest of the world can too.

LIBERTY STINK    [18727.   Posted 28-Mar-2008 Fri 06:53]
  ARE WE WAKING UP YET!?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/5655041.html

WORLDWIDE Blasphemy Law, with a MASSIVE Islamic bias, has been passed by the U.N.

Welcome to your future. You can remove the blinkers now. If you want.

LIBERTY STINK    [18726.   Posted 27-Mar-2008 Thu 03:53]
  This place just gets worse and worse...anti-censorship? LMAO!

Religious Watch    [18725.   Posted 26-Mar-2008 Wed 21:56]
  Sorry Liberty, post deleted

Your post was abusive to fellow posters who have done nothing to incur such hostility

anonymous    [18723.   Posted 24-Mar-2008 Mon 17:07]
  Anonymous Vs. the Church of Scientology

This message is brought to you on behalf of Anonymous.

We made this topic to help spread awareness about Anonymous and its fight against the Church of Scientology.
This post is also here to inform you about Operation Reconnect, April 12th.

Our Message:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCbKv9yiLiQ

Operation Reconnect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSSgwD-9PS4

For more information about Anonymous check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Chanology

Film about Scientology if you are not familiar with it:
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=2196573959887248236

[img]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4575/anonymousbecause2jq3.jpg[/img]

What do YOU think of the Church of Scientology?

We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not Forgive.
We do not Forget.
Expect Us.

Religious Watch    [18722.   Posted 23-Mar-2008 Sun 19:06]
  Welcome loveandpeace

Always good to know of people striving for calm.

Of course in the world of religion, words mean little, and it is actions that count. Religions are historic masters at "Preaching Tolerance whilst Practising Intolerance".

But of course individual efforts can surely contribute to make it a little better...but there is a hell of a way to go.

loveandpeace    [18716.   Posted 22-Mar-2008 Sat 16:52]
  May i introduce myself to fellow posters...

I am a Pakistani British Muslim, living in London and i am very proud of been British and grateful to this country for receiving me here when i was 16, i am now 36 yrs old. I value this country more than any so called Muslim country in the world. In fact the British people, specifically the English, are "more Muslim" than a lot of Muslims in this country and abroad.

I feel a sense of deep loyalty to Britain and i feel very ashamed of what some of my fellow Muslims in this great country of ours, and abroad, are doing. Terrorism, double standards, madness, creating discord in the land, has no place in Islam or for that matter, any Godly religion- its simply plain common sense!

May it be a small token of us smoking this pipe of peace for me to say that there are a lot of Muslims in the UK, England, who are doing very good work locally and nationally to build bridges across communities. We are raising monies for local, national non Muslim charities, we talk to our neighbours, we invite them to the local Mosques. We demonstrate to other Muslims what great country we live in.

Good work is always going on...behind the scenes and away from all the noise. I am afraid the public communication tool called the media may not deem it worthy of publication, because i presume good news does not sell news.

All this I tell you from my heart and sincerely.

Thank you for reading this, and thank you for tolerating us. Together we will uproot the fanatical people who are our common problem

Best wishes my brethren.

Shaun    [18715.   Posted 22-Mar-2008 Sat 05:20]
  Religion watch -
"As for respect, I have little for the likes of Beyer, Vaz and Iranian Mullahs...however I would always show them politeness and civility "


I agree mostly. However I think I would draw the line at Iranian Mullahs, and Iranian judges who personally executed young girls...

Otherwise one supposes that it is perfectly possible to say to someone "You are a complete and utter nutter!" in polite language!

Being abusive to people usually achieves nothing, other than to confirm the view of the other party, that they were right after all.

Religious Watch    [18714.   Posted 21-Mar-2008 Fri 20:34]
  
Moved post from dano

Betting shops opening on Good Friday prompts Christians to tell us how to live our lives.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7308075.stm

Religious Watch    [18713.   Posted 21-Mar-2008 Fri 08:35]
  Liberty

Yes there is surely hypocrisy. Usually slightly disguised under polite terms such as diplomacy, tact, politics etc.

But it also necessary. One simply has to maintain a cordial atmosphere otherwise no one will hang round to listen.

As to discussion on religious news, I am sure things could be discussed but this is a PC world and that is not a bad thing. The style of your debate is simply unacceptable to the vast majority of forum members. This unacceptablity then overshadows any points about religion being made and the whole exercise achieves nothing.

As for respect, I have little for the likes of Beyer, Vaz and Iranian Mullahs...however I would always show them politeness and civility

LIBERTY STINK    [18712.   Posted 21-Mar-2008 Fri 06:52]
  Fucking hypocrisy by MF again!

My posts are as disrespectful to Islam as everyone else are to Vaz or Beyer!!

Only I`m not a PC hypocrite!

I see nothing but name calling and disrespect on here for people...but you cower in fear and show respect for a fucking religion! A religion far worse than a million Beyers!

Running scared bullshit from a place that still puts up daily anti-islamic news but forbids discussion on it unless it`s respectful! Why should I respect anything to do with it!??

And I don`t see any respect for Beyer, Vaz and the like either! Hypocritical PC cowards.

FUCK YOU! FUCK THEM!

Religious Watch    [18711.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:52]
  Liberty Stink

There is no real fairness to the moving of posts. It is just that they are so corrosive to both friends and opponents that they harm the forum

Nobody wants to read such uncivil outpourings, a quick glance at the overall post is enough to classify it as unpleasant in tone and it gets instantly ignored regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

Surely reasoned persuasion of possible supporters is always going to succeed over insulting or verbally abusing them!

Religious Watch    [18710.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:44]
  
Moved Post from Phantom

LIBERTY STINK [22159. Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 11:18]

I see that you evidently are not intending to stay away, Stink.
Despite your claim to the contrary in a previous post.
So much to us taking you by your word…

If Manhunt 2 to is not an issue, then I really don’t understand why you frequent a board where the issue is regularly raised.

As for you being the only one heroic enough to hate people for certain religious sentiments. I really wouldn’t brag too loudly about that. It’s not a virtue. Perhaps one day you’ll see that. Though I very much doubt it.

Intolerance, from whatever angle tends to be nasty.
So true, there is intolerance from some followers of Islam. It’s beyond doubt. When a people, whipped up into a craze over cartoons, start burning Swiss flags, because they’ve run out of Danish ones, it’s not a healthy state of affairs.

But serial posting hatred towards Islam is no more healthy.
When then we start getting comments on Gypsies and ‘smelly’ ‘tarmac spewing’ ‘Irish tinkers’ I really get fed up.

Finally we get callous sneering on the torturous force feeding of a Guantanamo Bay inmate.

It’s not religious bigotry or racism per se. It’s just BNP material.
I’ve never been one for censoring the BNP. I feel they have a right to vent their garbage, no matter what Messrs Brown & Co think. But there are places for this.
Just as I don’t think hardcore sex videos need be aired in kindergardens, or posts questioning the powers of Ofcom ought to be aired on cookery programs, I don’t think your posts belong on Melonfarmers

You mention your interest in horror films and their censorship.
Well, why not talk about that? Unless it’s an empty claim…
The fact is that your stuff is so off topic as to make people’s eyes water.

I really cannot see what you’re doing here, Stink. It seems fairly obvious that no one here shares your level of visceral hatred towards minorities of various kinds.
If you’re hoping to ‘persuade’ us to your cause, I really think you’re wasting your time.

Fact is, we’re much more interested in Manhunt, Phorm, the BBFC, the DPA and the likes…

These may not be subjects for which anyone is going to have their hands severed in a public square (not yet, anyhow), but they are evident examples of how principles of freedom we hold very dear are being undermined by none too nice people out there.

We are seeing this nation of once fairly laid back freedom-loving people, turned into a country of surveilled, neutered tax donkeys whose every taste and interest is to be prescribed by Harriet Harman and Vernon Coaker.

Many here are interested at the way this ever increasing prescription reveals itself in the small decisions taken in various quarters on our behalf. Be it Ofcom, the BBFC or a broadcaster suddenly decide to cut ‘animal cruelty’ from a John Wayne film or that Basil Brush suddenly be told to clean up his act.

However, we don’t just all site here and post ever more visceral hatred of the BBFC staff or John Beyer.

I simply suggest that you honour your previous commitment and leave us be.
Frankly, the site would be a happier place for it and I’m sure you’d be much more content ranting among similar minded people on a John Gaunt inspired bulletin board, or somewhere similar…

Why stay here? Just to spite us?

Religious Watch    [18709.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:43]
  
Moved Post from Liberty Stink

And as for being OT...

Melon Farmers have ONE site. And on that site they have, everyday, religious nutter news.
Most of it about Muslims and Islam with the odd bit of Catholic crap thrown in and a sprinkling of `others`.

Just because you so called soldiers of right and might suddenly took scared and decided to move actual talk about religion to a wasteland does not change the fact that religious news and general censorship news are on YOUR site.
The SAME site. ALTOGETHER.

And anyone who thinks the most rabid religions are not at the forefront of censorship, ESPECIALLY ISLAM (the Dutch film has not even opened yet and we have death threats and as for the re-print of the cartoons and threats and arrests for an alleged murder plot of a cartoonist...no Pagans involved), needs a reality check.

I in fact have many other censorship worries and have been part of the horror/cult fandom for many years and have DIRECT, PERSONAL experience with draconian raids over films...
But fucking "manhunt 2" is NOT the big issue here.
The big issues on censorship are where people are actually KILLED for what they say, print, write, film...and that`s religion. Specifically Islam.

And you can moan and rant all you want about banning a computer game...but it is laughable hypocrisy and out and out COWARDICE to then ignore (or kick out of the discussion) censorship issues where those involved don`t just have stuff banned BUT END UP DEAD!!

So hate on me all you want. But I`m the only one on here who has actually tackled the biggest censorship/rights threat the entire world faces.
I`m happy to be hated for that by people who bleed hypocrisy and try to (as indeed the Islamists do) shut me up by calling me racist...even though I`ve not said anything about race at all/ Just religion. Religion that stands for specific things, ideas and doctrines above and beyond race.

I hope that sorts things out and puts certain people straight!

Religious Watch    [18708.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:43]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

Why move my post about the Gypsie/Basil Brush crud from here but leave the post with the links up on here???

And my point was not about actual Gypsies (who are a race, and a persecuted one)...just those being classed as Gypsies when in fact they are nothing of the sort (and as such using the race card and human rights bollocks to protect themselves from basic Laws).

And unless you live in a different universe than me...then selling `lucky` heather is EXACTLY what happens. IN fact London Underground have SPECIFIC signs up telling you about such people.
So are London Underground evil racists too?

I guess very few people on here actually read before they act.

Religious Watch    [18707.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:42]
  
Copied post from lolwhut

Wot no talk about whether or not Basil Brush is a card carrying member of the KKK?

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/Basil-Brush-racism-row-TV.3896645.jp
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?xml=/portal/2008/03/18/ftbasil118.xml
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23387631-5002700,00.html
http://www.tvscoop.tv/2008/03/basil_brush_vul.html

LIBERTY STINK    [18706.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 11:41]
  ----Al Hajj described the way he sees himself being force fed in the so-called "Torture Chair" - the restraint chair into which they are strapped twice a day to have a 110cm tube forcibly inserted into one nostril so that liquid food can be administered.----


Well they could have let you die mate. Would have saved on the food bills.

LIBERTY STINK    [18705.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 09:58]
  PHANTOM!!!

I believe my point was that they...ARE NOT GYPSIES!!

Re-read!!
I never said anything about actual Gypsies...Just those being classed as Gypsies (and as such using the race card and human rights bollocks to avade basic Laws) when in fact they are nothing of the sort!!

And unless you live in a different universe than me...then selling `lucky` heather is EXACTLY what happens. IN fact London Underground have SPECIFIC signs up telling you about such people.
So are London Underground evil racists too?

So I accept your apology!! Next time engage brain before fingers.

Religious Watch    [18704.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 08:40]
  I always think that imposing religious nonsense on other people is pretty much akin to censorship. But it is imposed with one more notch of unreasonableness and it is therefore that much more difficult to argue against rationally.

The right wing rhetoric surely reflects real problems and represents many peoples view on the subject and therefore should be noted. However the typically unrealistic and uncivilised solutions tend to be worse than the problems in hand and are totally unpaletable to the majority. These solutions will simply never be listened to.

It shouldn`t be allowed to close down more reasonable debate though, maybe best simply ignored. Politicians soon learn to ignore people, perhaps a neccesary attribute to getting on with the job.

Religious Watch    [18703.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 08:01]
  
Moved post from Phantom

LIBERTY STINK [22155. Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 04:56]

I`m sorry, folks.
But do we really need to listen to this hateful drivel?
This could be taken right from a BNP flyer.

I`m all for free speech. But I feel that the forum here is being hijacked for the purpose of right wing demagoguery here.
I cannot see how this bears any relevance to the anti-censorship notion behind this site.
If people want to slag off minorities, I`m sure there are appropriate fora they can find.
But just as I`m not posting about the Dangerous Pictures Act on fora which center on DIY car repair, I just don`t see the point in having this BNP nonsense spouted here.
We`ve done Muslims, now Gypsies. What next? Jews? Blacks? The disabled?
Apart from being downright nasty, it`s just utterly off topic.

No doubt I`ll be accused by Stink of wanting to censor.
The fact remains that what he thinks of Gypsies has nothing to do with the notions behind this site.
I doubt I`m the only one who thinks this.

So please, Stink, can you do us all a favour?
After all, you alrady announed once before you were to leave this board.
Isn`t it time for another attempt at such abstinence?

Religious Watch    [18702.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 08:00]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

----n the controversial episode, which is available on DVD and was recently repeated on the digital channel CBBC, a gypsy woman offers heather and wooden pegs----

Well...er...actually I`ve been offered such shit `services` too.
Lucky fucking heather and the like. In fact these parasites invade many an underground train and high street in London.

But of course they also hide behind this `race` thing. Again what race are these smelly bunch?
Most of the nappy dumping, dog shit dropping, broken down car leaving, tarmac spewing `Gypsies` are actually nothing but Irish tinkers who spew out over the UK because they refuse to work anywhere and Ireland is sensible enough not to want them puking over the sights of scientific interest.

The other bunch may indeed contain a few real Gypsies but most are of various races and nationalities and are simply Euro tramps ripping off whatever country they happen to be in and have nothing at all to do with actual Gypsies. Or a race.

If you have an Eastern European, Irish accent and live in a trailer, drop filth all over the countryside and with a shit load of dodgy cash under the bed you`re a `Gypsie` or a `Traveller` and have the Human Rights brigade standing up for you.

Do exactly the same but have an English accent you`re a dodgy Chav tramp who rightfully gets his collar felt and no one cares.

Racism indeed.

Religious Watch    [18701.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:59]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

Dano...Perhaps shouting remarks about the vicar you beat up being Christian, while you are Muslim, has nothing to do with Islam or being Muslim...

Perhaps you think the rocks thrown through the churches`s windows and MUSLIMS standing outside saying "you should not be here, this should be a mosque" has nothing to do with Islam or being Muslim...

But your sort would. Rational, not chained by PC apologist mindset, people see the facts though.

Is Muslim scum racist??? What race are they??
And if a Muslim beat up an aged vicar, and insulted him for being Christian while doing it...YES I would call them MUSLIM SCUM.

I`d call them Pagan Scum as well, Hindu scum, Catholic scum, Buddhist scum if they did such a thing because of their religion.
But of course none of those religions were involved. Again.

And why don`t all Muslims do this? Well not all Nazis shoved Jews into ovens. Not all BNP members want all non-whites gone, not all WI members bake scones.
That does not mean that if they were truly devout though that they should.

But when we add all the other things that Muslims do to the actual violence...excusing terrorist attacks, helping terrorists, moaning whenever any Muslim is arrested, wanting Sharia Law (even so far as to kill gays and converts), forced marriages, hundreds of missing school girls, whole communities helping to track down women who try to flee, parades calling for violence etc etc....This `not all` certainly becomes a majority. NOT a minority of morons.

But perhaps `not all` of them are truly devout Muslims. Indeed ask many a so called `fanatic` Muslim and they have stated MANY TIMES that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim if they are truly Muslim.

So those that are mot part of any of the above are not really true Muslims so are not really valid to the trouble at hand.
I`m technically a Christian, C of E. TECHNICALLY.
Can`t say I actually do anything involved with it though. So I can;t really be classed as part of any Christian debate can I?

And I could of course just as easily say to you....
Where are all the members of other religions, on any scale at all worth a damn, carrying out such acts?
WELL??

For something supposedly nothing to do with being Muslim....they ALL seem to be Muslim. What a weird coincidence!

But this apologist, victimhood staus, Islam is not to blame it`s just like any other religion lie is ever present.
A new report in the UK says non-Muslims/whites (WHITES??? There are about 60,000 WHITE Muslims in the UK) should do more to help Muslims feel welcome, as they feel they are not welcome here....

And I wonder why?

I gather this would not have been the case until a bunch of Muslims crashed planes into the Two Towers in the name of Islam (the biggest loss of BRITISH lives in a single attack EVER).

Nor would it have happened before the celebrations shown around the world by other Muslims when 9/11 happened (including Britain).

Nor would these feelings have occurred before another bunch of Muslims, and then another bunch of Muslims and then another bunch of Muslims...ALL in the name of Islam...blew up people in Spain, Bali and London.

Nor would this have been the case before yet more Muslims tried to blow up planes,
planted car bombs in London,
tried to make a fertiliser bomb,
tried to behead a soldier,
tried to blow up yet more buses in London,
crashed a burning Jeep into Glasgow airport
or paraded up and down UK streets with death threat placards.

So who are the victims again?

Religious Watch    [18700.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:58]
  
Moved post from IanG

Shaun/dano/stinky, it isn`t the ideology. There are 3 Bibles on the bookshelf behind me, along with Gulliver`s Travels, Applied Calculus and a host of other books the contents of which present no danger to me or society whatsoever.

Islam doesn`t "control countries", people do. The law of any land is only as good as the people that make it, live by it, and enforce it. It thus falls to the philosophy of the law makers, whether they choose to respect the lives and acknowledge the rights of their fellow man, or choose to believe a load of pointless, superstitious mumbo jumbo. In general the law makers take the side of whatever gives them power and authority, and historically that`s been God(s), King, or Country (usually in that order).

We`re not a million miles away from the issues we discuss here, and I`d like to point out how far away from a true take on human rights this country`s law makers and censors really are:

"[Judge] Wollman wrote that whatever our intuitive (dare we say commonsense) feelings regarding the effect that extreme violence portrayed in the above-described video games may well have upon the psychological well-being of minors, precedent requires incontrovertible proof of a causal relationship between exposure to the games and some psychological harm."

You can just as easily replace `extreme violence in video games` with `porn on TV` or `nudity in ads` (even `extreme porn`) and you get the same result. Without "incontrovertible proof of a causal relationship between exposure" and the supposed `harm`, our lawmakers do us a great disservice by banning material and even imprisoning those that dare to publish or possess it.

Their latest excuse is the issue of `causing offence`. Causing offence is not harmful. Yet, it is wheeled out as a reason to ban and censure numerous items in this country as if people do have some legal right not to be offended. They DO NOT. Because, in the very act of banning and censuring said items, our `authorities` cause me (and most here) a great deal of offence by treating us like children and second class (rights-less) citizens.

So like I said, the law, and the ideology behind the law, is only as good as the people that make it and enforce it - and frankly our`s sucks as bad as any others sometimes.

Religious Watch    [18699.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:57]
  
Moved post from Shaun

Well dano, as I have written here, I don`t like Islam much either.

At least not when it controls countries in the way it does. I also believe that if some of the believers have their way, we would ALL be subject to some form of Sharia law here too. That`s not to hate the people. They are people, and have a right to be treated properly as anyone else would be, Human Rights and all. But I certainly don`t care much for their beliefs and way of life as manifest in Islamic countries. I think brutal treatment of women and gays, along with public executions in the town square are somewhat beyond the pale, don`t you ?

Their assaults on freedom of expression in Western countries must be resisted. I hope the powers that be, do so, and I certainly have no "respect" for their particular brand of idiocy. Respect has to be earned, not automatically given.

Race has nothing to do with anything.

Liberty - If you`d present your arguments in a rational manner instead of ranting and raving, we wouldn`t feel so compelled to try and confine you to the religious watch forum, where really this debate should be happening. Except few people go there now.

Religious Watch    [18698.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:56]
  
Moved post from dano

Liberty Stink do it give it a rest.

You are using the actions of a minority of morons who happen to be Muslim as a reason why we should hate Islam and all Muslims. That`s just bollox.

Muslim scum? I would say that`s racist!

You don`t really add anything to the debate about the worthyness of any particular religion just smears and general all round nastyness.

"Because the reason they did what they did (check the - few - newspaper reports for the remarks also uttered to churchgoers to see that) is BECAUSE they were MUSLIM."

No it`s not because they are Muslim it`s because the are dickheads! Why don`t other Muslims do this then? Explain that one! Maybe it`s because they have been taught right from wrong. Don`t think Muslims no right from wrong?

Religious Watch    [18697.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:55]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

--------Iraqis are being slaughtered by violent religious extremists.------


Well that`s up to them isn`t it!?

they`re not backward children are they?

True, we should have remembered just how barbaric Islamist belief is and worked out that when the dogs were taken off Saddam`s leash they would go back to what they have been doing for a thousand years...ripping each other apart....but I guess we gave them the benefit of the evolutionary doubt.

Hardly anyone`s fault but theirs though is it???


-----I would argue that those who hate Islam and Muslims don`t suffer from a phobia just nasty racism.---


LMAO!!! What race is this again????
What a crock of apologist shit.
Arab, Black, Asian, WHITE. ALL Muslim.
Last month alone 16 POLISH women were suckered into leaving evolution behind and joining Islam in one mosque (read the papers).
So what race is this again???

Lot of Black African Catholics you know, as well as white ex-Nazis like the stinking current Pope.
So what race are Catholics???
And of course...WHAT RACE ARE MUSLIMS???

Fucking racism is in describing MUSLIM scum who beat up a vicar at his Church as Asian!
Asian youths. Not Muslim...oh no, ASIAN.
THAT is racism!
Racism against all those Asian Christians, Asian Hindus, Asian Catholics, Asian non-believers and even Japanese and Chinese!
Racism is NOT calling such people MUSLIM. Because the reason they did what they did (check the - few - newspaper reports for the remarks also uttered to churchgoers to see that) is BECAUSE they were MUSLIM.

They did not attack the vicar because of `Pakistani motives`...But for ISLAMIC MOTIVES!

Yet more MUSLIMS recently attacked an ASIAN Hindu festival (good luck trying to find much reporting on that though), shall we call them Asian too? Despite those who were attacked also being Asian?

Massive increase in attacks on Jews.
COUNTLESS attacks by MUSLIMS on many other religions (and skin colours) that are never reported or hushed up about who did what and why.
A Police force that prosecutes film makers who report hate speech but mot those that did the hate speech.
BBC ignoring/excusing/spinning attacks by Muslims while going all out to take the BNP to court because Griffin gave his personal view on Islam (NO fan of Griffin at all, but he was spot on here).

We could go on and on.
I see unfairness all right, but it`s not against Muslims. It`s against everyone else!

And the worldwide, Islam championed, blasphemy law is getting closer.......

Religious Watch    [18696.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:54]
  
Moved post from Dano

Shaun.

I don`t really despise Islam or any other religion actually. I don`t have a problem with religion per say (some of it can be preety endearing and heart warming like Jesus in the stable all that even if it is to me a mere fairystory) or religious people just those religious people who try to impose their beliefs on me and others who don`t share their beliefs.
I don`t have a problem with for example Christians and Muslims believing being gay is immoral and that if you are gay you will burn in the fires of hell (although I do believe that is a load of poppycock) but I do have a problem with those Christians and Muslims to seek to impose that belief on homosexuals by pushing for repressive anti-homosexual legislation and opposing legislation that will prevent discrimination against homosexuals.
I never had a problem with Iqbal Saccraine from the Muslim Council Of Britain saying he believes homosexuality to be wrong and immoral (I disagree with the police investigating him for hate crimes) because that`s his belief and he`s free to believe and say it.
But if he had said he was going to lobby for homosexuality to be banned and gays to be locked up then I would have had a problem because then he would be trying to impose his beliefs on others.
I have a big problem with the terrorists who blew up the tubes trains and buses on 7/7/. As much as I am totally opposed to the Iraq war, British/USA foriegn policy and the warmongering scum that is George Bush I don`t buy this argument that they were just misguided angry young men who were violently demonstrating their anger towards the war, foriegn policy, Blair/Bush etc etc.
Watching the video their ringleader recorded before he killed himself and others on a tube train showed how much he truley wanted to impose his beliefs on others.
As much as I hate our foriegn policy I don`t see why a bunch of egotistical crackpot religious extremist nutters should shape it.

Onto another subject and I am deaply ammused by the proposal of Liverpool city council for the BBFC to make films with scenes of smoking in them 18 rated. But this made me preety mad...

“Mr Hull said if the BBFC is not prepared to adopt an 18 certificate then the city will consider using licensing laws to bring in its own stricter ratings for films screened locally.”

So they would go and overide the lawful rulings of the BBFC and impose censorship on young cinema goers! Let`s hope people in Liverpool oppose this.

Oh and another subject...yet more calls for bans on junk food ads. I find so called consumer groups very funny. They seem to be spending more time trying to take away consumer rights and freedoms.
Oh but of course if you are a lentil eating, tofu chomping, non smoking, teetotal, cycling veggie they want you to have all the rights.
Like the odd McDonalds, ciggie, bear and drive a 4x4 and they want you made to suffer until you change your wicked ways!

Religious Watch    [18695.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:53]
  
Moved post from Shaun

dano,

It is important that people learn to differentiate between the ideology, and the people who believe in it.

One can be free to despise the ideology, and even perhaps seek to eradicate it. The same should not apply to its adherents.

Many believe communism should be eradicated. They don`t generally believe that people who believe in communism should also be eradicated.

One can despise the belief, without any way wishing ANY harm on the believers. Excepting perhaps a wish that they would believe something else instead.

Religious Watch    [18694.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:52]
  
Moved post from dano

On the subject of Islamophobia that`s a word constantly used to shut down debate and criticism of Islam as a religion.
The general view amongst those on the hard left is that criticism of Islam is racist because Muslims are an oppressed race and therefore any criticism (even respectful criticism) is racist against Muslims and oppresing them.
The overiding view amongst many on the hard left is that because Islam is an oppresed religion it should not be criticised and just defended from oppresion. They see criticism of Islam as failing to side with an oppressed relgion and race and instead siding with it`s oppresors.
Criticism of other religions such as Christanity and Jewdaism is ok because those religions are not (or in the case of Jewdaism no longer) oppressed.
I also think it is seen in terms of majority and minority religion. Because Islam is seen in this country as a minority religion therefore in the eyes those who talk about Islamophobia criticism of it is the majority attacking the minority.
It`s acceptable for a Muslim to criticise the beliefs of a Christian but not vice versa because that would be someone from the majority attacking the minority.


I would argue that those who hate Islam and Muslims, such as BNP nutters like Nick Griffin don`t suffer from a phobia just nasty racism.

Religious Watch    [18693.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:51]
  
Moved post from Shaun

The trouble is that many like myself, don`t believe it is an irrational view, so by definition it is NOT a phobia, Islamaphobia or otherwise.
The fear is real and in my view quite justified. Instead of these people telling US that our fear is hurting them and global peace, perhaps they should tell us why we should not be afraid of them. My guess is that they couldn`t. Not convincingly so anyway.

Maybe they think its OK to execute people for being gay, or sexually immoral BUT I DON`T. Maybe they think it is OK to be brutal to their women, and lash their fellow human beings for no reason at all, BUT I DON`T. I would despise ANYONE who thought that treating human beings this way was acceptable.

The Islamics THEMSELVES should STOP violating Human Rights everywhere where Islam rules, as they clearly currently do. They should stop hanging people especially ones who did no wrong, stop stoning people to death, stop giving people 500 lashes, and virtually killing folk in the process, they should stop treating women worse than dogs and camels, stop forcing them to marry against their will, and perhaps then, AFTER A LONG LONG TIME none Islamic people might be less afraid of them.

They NEED to FIRST put their OWN HOUSES in order.


The whole situation is completely ridiculous. We are not stupid. We can see what happens when Islam gets a hold. Even in moderate secular Turkey there are serious problems because Islam wants to take over.

But the Islamics, along with our politicians try to treat us like fools telling us there`s nothing to be afraid of... Just like the big bad wolf perhaps...

If anyone is irrational it is religious people. Now if I said I believed in the man in the moon, they`d want to lock me up as mentally deranged... But they can believe in something no more visible with complete impunity...

Remember, Islam ISN`T just a religion. It is held to be complete way of life, political system and religion combined. People forget that.

We should let them know that we will absolutely REFUSE to tolerate their repressive barbaric and evil ways and will STAUNCHLY defend our right to REAL freedom of expression.

Religious Watch    [18692.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:50]
  
Moved post from MichaelG

Re: Shaun [22130]:

Phobia = An irrational fear of something.

"The report by a special OIC monitoring group said the organisation was struggling to get the West to understand that Islamophobia has dangerous implications on global peace and security and to convince western powers to do more."

So, if it`s a phobia we`re dealing with, why does it have "dangerous implications on global peace and security"? Certainly sounds like a real reason to be afraid to me...

Religious Watch    [18691.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:49]
  
Moved post from Shaun

Phobia = An irrational fear of something.

Islamaphobia therefore means an irrational fear of Islam.

Given the amount of problems in the world due to Islam, I do NOT think such a fear of Islam would be unreasonable and therefore irrational.

Therefore it is NOT Islamaphobia.

Where Islam comes in, freedom usually goes out the door.

Not only that, people are routinely executed for acts which WOULD NOT EVEN BE A CRIME in free countries.

Gays for example. I am still haunted by the images of those two men, not yet out of their teenage years, who were executed. The Iranian LIARS tried to say they were guilty of child rape, which was an attempt to justify their ABSOLUTELY EVIL form of "justice".

Not to mention poor Atefeh Rajabi.

I tell you what - I`d happily enough hang the fucking "judge" who PERSONALLY executed that tragic lass, and feel no more remorse than shooting a RAT in a sewer. Indeed I would give the bastard a big smile as I pulled the lever. Even though I usually abhor the death penalty, I`d make an exception in the case of that twat.

Most Islamic countries are completely BARBARIC in the way they are run.

Women appear to be treated like dirt. In one country they aren`t even allowed to drive. In others they are routinely executed, again for things that WOULD NOT EVEN BE A CRIME in this country. They have no freedom at all. Even in this country they are often badly treated.

People say we should not fear this kind of thing ?

I don`t like religion of any kind, and I CERTAINLY DO NOT like Islam.

Indeed I fear it. If that makes me an islamaphobe, then so be it. I find NO SHAME whatsover in being frightened of a belief system which often MURDERS innocent people, or people guilty if minor transgressions.

Any censorship brought encouraged by the fools at the UN must be VIGOROUSLY resisted.


They expect us all to accept all this, without a word of critcism ?

They can go screw themselves all the hateful repressive lot of them.

There is no justification to harm individuals, howewever we SHOULD be free to criticise the rottenness and IDIOCY of their beliefs.

Religious Watch    [18690.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:48]
  
Moved post from Liberty Stink

What`s this?? Jumping up and down about the seeming death of the UK blasphemy laws on this forum, but no mention at all about the story I already mentioned (finally on the MF home page as well) about a WORLDWIDE BLASPHEMY LAW carried on the shoulders of the foul Islamists???

I love the smell of PC hypocrisy in the morning....

Religious Watch    [18689.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:46]
  
Moved post from MichaelG

Re: nutter bishop...

And these windbags bemoan that the numbers of people attending church are dwindling... are you in the least bit surprised with thoughtless, grossly insensitive bollox like this coming out of the mouths of its representatives?

"Fiona McTaggart, the Labour MP for Slough, said "I would not expect a school to promote material that was lies..."

OK, so that`s all religious texts out of the equation then, can we now get on with teaching our kids something that doesn`t promote division, inequality, intolerance and sexual repression?

Re: Britishness is... A censorial old fossil like Austin Mitchell

A bit late getting my oar in here, but here goes...

MP Austin Mitchell : "I watched just for the purposes of research the pornography and sex channels which are available certainly on my satellite dish. Now these are horrible actually, they should be BANNED I can`t see why we are allowing them. This is a terrible thought if we are equipping the country to watch this degrading rubbish."

Yes Austin, I quite agree, it is RUBBISH and it is HORRIBLE!! I think it`s absolutely outrageous that after the watershed, these programmes still have to abide by ludicrous rules that stipulate that all girls who appear on such programmes have to wear 2 PAIRS of knickers, just in case anyone gets a fleeting glimpse of something all of us have seen, or got, or emerged from at birth, ourselves.

I think it`s disgusting that, for some reason, the powers that be think that the sight of female genitalia is something that adults (who are perfectly entitled by law to view exactly the same thing as close as they like in real life) should be protected from.

I find it inconceivable that one click away on the TV remote, happy and healthy American girls are displaying full frontal nudity on the Playboy channel, whereas the bored looking slappers that we have to put up with on British `erotic` entertainment shows show less skin than you`d see in most `Carry On` films.

"Purposes of research"? Well, at his age, he`s not going to be tuning in for a wank, is he?

Looks like we have yet another mentally deficient MP (probably senile in this case) who`s developed some kind of obsessive, compulsive disorder arising from personal issues with a non-harmful subject-matter and is using (or ABusing) the powers we granted him in an attempt to come to terms with his own shortcomings. Is this really a government or some kind of self-help therapy clinic for MPs? Still, with Keith Vaz and his videogame `problem`, Martin Salter and his BDSM Community `problem`, Fiona McTaggart and Harriet Harman with their male sexuality `problem` and last, but certainly not least, Julian Brazier with his little BBFC `problem`, it would appear as though this repressive old fuckwit is in very good company...

Religious Watch    [18688.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:44]
  
Moved post from dano

Re: nutter bishop...

"Suppose you went into a school and found in the library material that said the Holocaust never took place?"

What an insult to the millions of Jews who died and suffered in the Holocaust. Suggesting that saying an airy fairy unproven story never took place is the same as denying the slaughter of millions of innocent men, women and children is just disgusting.
It just goes to show the deapths to which some of these religious nutters will sink to get their own way.

ChiefCensor    [18320.   Posted 24-Jul-2006 Mon 02:59]
  The ChiefCensor will wear his hypocrite badge with pride when censoring non-conforming posts, please:
- No spam, libel, slander, etc
- No aggressive personal abuse (except to liken the ChiefCensor to Tony Blair when he censors you)
- No mindless incitement or hate (except of the ChiefCensor when he censors you)