Religious Watch    [18749.   Posted 21-Apr-2008 Mon 10:03] View Near Messages
loveandpeace

A basic feature of most religions is that, to various degrees, they teach people to be unquestioningly faithful to people supposedly speaking for god.

So then it depends how good these spokespeople are, as to whether the followers are extreme or moderate, saints or terrorists.

Even if a religion isn`t directly responsible for the action of adherants who don`t follow the `correct` message, they should be held to account for teaching children to grow up to be unthinkingly obedient. This is just asking for trouble.

Religious Watch    [18741.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:40] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

So in fact Darkangel you are going to ignore all the facts I posted against you.

Suits me. The silence speaks volumes.

When you actually have anything to back up your laughable, apologist, post you made and can counter anything I said in reply please do. Until then you have nothing valid to say or add.

Running away crying about `rudeness` still means you are just running away.
Because you hoped either no one would answer your utterly wrong points or they`d agree with you as this place is full of such apologists as your less than good self.

But unfortunately for you you got me answering you. And your remarks were shown up for what they ALL were. Utterly incorrect on every level.

here you go I`ll make it less rude for you, see if you still run away from answering.




------Half the problem with Islam that i can see is that most of its followers are from 3rd world countries who don`t know better. I`m fairly sure that if these backwards folks followed christianity they would be just as bad.---


I must have missed all these African Catholic suicide bombers, convert killers and stoning mobs calling out God`s name as they slice a guys head off like a pig.

Even being raised in the UK and going to University does not stop you strapping a bomb to yourself to claim your virgins when Islam comes a calling.



-----You`ve only got to look at those preachers in the deep south of the US to see that.----

Er....No actually.

Even Jerry Falwell are not in the same league of murderous hate and violence loving exhaltation as many a Muslim cleric we have seen and heard!
Sorry. But you`re utterly and completely wrong.

Show me even one American preacher who calls for people who offended God or Jesus to be beheaded...
Show me one who has openly preached of other religions as Pigs and monkeys....
Show me one who has literally called for homosexuals to be executed...
Show me one who preachers converts away from Christiaity should be murdered...
Show me one who defends and even instructs wife beating...
Show me one who has defended and praised suicide bombing or indeed warfare!

And you don`t have to go to the Deep South of anything to hear all that said by Muslim preachers as ALL that is pretty much daily sermons as normal even in `moderate` UK mosques as we have seen!



------It basically took all the worst parts assosiated with Islam and made out it was all like that.----

No, It took all the general and currently active all over the world aspects of Islam and made it look, correctly, that a lot if not most of Islam is like that.
Seems fair to me.
As a simple look on the Internet any day of the week will show you.


And we can even compare like with like right now.
Scorsese? Monty Python? Sinead O`Connor? `Jerry Springer the Opera` writers?
All fine and dandy and not in fear or hiding for their lives.

Wilders?

Surrounded by six bodyguards, has received 600 death threats, sometimes he and his wife have been moved into prison cells for their safety and he currently has a fatwa for his death on his head.

Yeah....No difference is there?




WELL????



And again you show an utter lack of any understanding about the things you try to debate.

------terrorist atrocities being carried out in Northern Ireland up until a few years ago. ----

????????
Sorry? What religion was this then? Catholicism?
Strange then that a Catholic in Africa say had no interest whatsoever in a United Ireland.
Northern Ireland was a political war. It just so happened it was the Catholics that wanted to be joined to the rest of Ireland.
But the fight was for a united Ireland...IT WAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH SPREADING ANY KIND OF RELIGION, DOCTRINE, OR INVOLVED ANY OTHER CATHOLICS WHO HAD NO LINKS TO IRELAND!!
It was an Irish cause...not a Catholic Church cause! Yes?? Right.

Dear me.

Religious Watch    [18740.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:39] View Near Messages

Moved post from DarkAngel

Liberty Stink

last response to me was just plain rude. If you are incapable of debating in a calm and rational manner then why should anyone wish to discuss anything further with you?

Secondly, if you want evidence of badly behaved christians, just look at all the terrorist atrocities being carried out in Northern Ireland up until a few years ago. What about those loonies in the US who go around blowing up abortion clinincs and murdering doctors?

Have you actually read the bible? A lot of it is fairly unpleasant.

Again, I have no love for that particular religion, no more than any other. But the way you rant and rave on occaisions doesn`t exactly show non-theists or libertarians in a very postive light now does it?

Might I suggest taking a deep breath and counting to ten before responding in future?

Religious Watch    [18739.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:38] View Near Messages

Moved post from Phantom

Stink,
Will you please give it a rest.
You promised to leave this board.
Stick to your word.

Religious Watch    [18738.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:37] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

Oh dear.

------Half the problem with Islam that i can see is that most of its followers are from 3rd world countries who don`t know better. I`m fairly sure that if these backwards folks followed christianity they would be just as bad.---


WHAT?! I must have missed all these African Catholic suicide bombers, convert killers and stoning mobs calling out God`s name as they slice a guys head off like a pig.

And it seems selective memory loss is rampant...Even being raised in the UK and going to University does not stop you strapping a bomb to yourself to claim your virgins when Islam comes a calling.

So enough of the apologist rubbish please.


-----You`ve only got to look at those preachers in the deep south of the US to see that.----

Er....No actually.
How pissed am I that you make me defend nutty Baptists, Catholics and the rest!
Even fucking scum like Jerry Falwell are not in the same league of murderous hate and violence loving exhaltation as many a Muslim cleric we have seen and heard!
Sorry. But you`re utterly and completely wrong.
Even if we compare fanatics like Falwell...You`re STILL wrong.

Show me even one American preacher who calls for people who offended God or Jesus to be beheaded...
Show me one who has openly preached of other religions as Pigs and monkeys....
Show me one who has literally called for homosexuals to be executed...
Show me one who preachers converts away from Christiaity should be murdered...
Show me one who defends and even instructs wife beating...
Show me one who has defended and praised suicide bombing or indeed warfare!

Because if not then you`re flat out wrong.
And you don`t have to go to the Deep South of anything to hear all that said by Muslim preachers as ALL that is pretty much daily sermons as normal even in `moderate` UK mosques as we have seen!

Nothing remotely, in the 21st century, compares.
IF Islam goes through a reformation like Christianity did then maybe you won`t be so wrong some day.

But until then......


------It basically took all the worst parts assosiated with Islam and made out it was all like that.----

No, It took all the general and currently active all over the world aspects of Islam and made it look, correctly, that a lot if not most of Islam is like that.
Seems fair to me. As a simple look on the Internet any day of the week will show you.


And we can even compare like with like right now.
Scorsese? Monty Python? Sinead O`Connor? `Jerry Springer the Opera` writers?
All fine and dandy and not in fear or hiding for their lives.

Wilders?

Surrounded by six bodyguards, has received 600 death threats, sometimes he and his wife have been moved into prison cells for their safety and he currently has a fatwa for his death on his head.

Yeah....No difference is there?

Religious Watch    [18737.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:36] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

http://www.iheu.org/node/3123

Just in case you missed this little news. Strange really given how so forthright you all are over `freedoms`.

"""For the past eleven years the organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) has been tightening its grip on the throat of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Yesterday, 28 March 2008, they finally killed it.

With the support of their allies including China, Russia and Cuba (none well-known for their defence of human rights) the Islamic States succeeded in forcing through an amendment to a resolution on Freedom of Expression that has turned the entire concept on its head.

The UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression will now be required to report on the “abuse” of this most cherished freedom by anyone who, for example, dares speak out against Sharia laws that require women to be stoned to death for adultery or young men to be hanged for being gay, or against the marriage of girls as young as nine, as in Iran.

There has been a seismic shift in the balance of power in the UN system. For over a decade the Islamic States have been flexing their muscles. Yesterday they struck. There can no longer be any pretence that the Human Rights Council can defend human rights.

The moral leadership of the UN system has moved from the States who created the UN in the aftermath of the Second World War, to the Islamic States, whose allegiance is to a narrow, medieval worldview defined exclusively in terms of man’s duties towards Allah.

Yesterday’s attack by the Islamists, led by Pakistan, had the subtlety of a thin-bladed knife slipped silently under the ribs of the Human Rights Council.

For the first time in the 60 year history of UN Human Rights bodies, a fundamental human right has been limited simply because of the possible violent reaction by the enemies of human rights.

The violence we have seen played out in reaction to the Danish cartoons is thus excused by the Council – it was the cartoonists whose freedom of expression needed to be regulated. And Theo van Gogh can be deemed responsible for his own death.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights died yesterday. Who knows when, or if, it can ever be revived.

I used to wonder what States who felt it necessary to kill people because they change their religion thought they were doing in the Human Rights Council. Now I know.

Roy W Brown
Geneva, 29 March 2008 """


But hey! Remember I`m a supposed racist, I`m wrong about being so `obsessed` about peaceful Islam and of course you still have to fight the good fight against a censored "Manhunt 2" and a crisp advert.

Religious Watch    [18736.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:34] View Near Messages

Moved post from DrakAngel

Just seen that Dutch film about Islam "Fitna" or whatever it was called.

I can see why it caused a bit of a furore, to be honest with you it was rather like those BNP propaganda videos, only a lot less subtle. It basically took all the worst parts assosiated with Islam and made out it was all like that.

Half the problem with Islam that i can see is that most of its followers are from 3rd world countries who don`t know better. I`m fairly sure that if these backwards folks followed christianity they would be just as bad.

You`ve only got to look at those preachers in the deep south of the US to see that.

I don`t think that the film should be banned, I think it should be shown and judged on its own merits.

Religious Watch    [18735.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:33] View Near Messages

Moved post from DarkAngel

Liberty Stink.

You are "Pat Condell" and I claim my £5!!!!

:D

Religious Watch    [18734.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:32] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

------The UK`s treatment of asylum seekers falls seriously below the standards of a civilised society, a report says.
-----


OH PLEASE!!
Strange then how so fucking many keep flooding in then!
Can anyone name a softer, weaker, bend over and take it, country as far as migrants go?

And the latest statistics show we `benefit` from just 28p a week per migrant as far as the economy goes.
Which is then wiped out by the underlying costs and massive damage done to communities (no go areas?...oh yes).
Schools (almost all London schools now have a minority of English speaking pupils).
Hospitals (maternity units all over the country having to close as they are full...and seeing as the average British family now has LESS children I think we know why they are full)
Councils spending untold millions on translating and translators.
And dark ages religions gaining political and social power by the influx of migrant delusionists (both Islam and Catholicism...the worst religions the world still cradles...have had numbers massively boosted by migrants).

"falls seriously below the standards of a civilised society"?
Yeah, I would say that`s correct in how this Government treats it`s own people!

Religious Watch    [18733.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:29] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

ARE WE WAKING UP YET!?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/5655041.html

WORLDWIDE Blasphemy Law, with a MASSIVE Islamic bias, has been passed by the U.N.

Welcome to your future. You can remove the blinkers now. If you want.

Religious Watch    [18728.   Posted 29-Mar-2008 Sat 11:24] View Near Messages
Liberty Stink

Well the Saudis have set a good example and refused to legislate along the lines of the UN recommendation. It seems that they cannot even recognise other religions much less give them rights.

If Saudi can ignore the resolution then surely the rest of the world can too.

Religious Watch    [18725.   Posted 26-Mar-2008 Wed 21:56] View Near Messages
Sorry Liberty, post deleted

Your post was abusive to fellow posters who have done nothing to incur such hostility

Religious Watch    [18722.   Posted 23-Mar-2008 Sun 19:06] View Near Messages
Welcome loveandpeace

Always good to know of people striving for calm.

Of course in the world of religion, words mean little, and it is actions that count. Religions are historic masters at "Preaching Tolerance whilst Practising Intolerance".

But of course individual efforts can surely contribute to make it a little better...but there is a hell of a way to go.

Religious Watch    [18714.   Posted 21-Mar-2008 Fri 20:34] View Near Messages

Moved post from dano

Betting shops opening on Good Friday prompts Christians to tell us how to live our lives.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7308075.stm

Religious Watch    [18713.   Posted 21-Mar-2008 Fri 08:35] View Near Messages
Liberty

Yes there is surely hypocrisy. Usually slightly disguised under polite terms such as diplomacy, tact, politics etc.

But it also necessary. One simply has to maintain a cordial atmosphere otherwise no one will hang round to listen.

As to discussion on religious news, I am sure things could be discussed but this is a PC world and that is not a bad thing. The style of your debate is simply unacceptable to the vast majority of forum members. This unacceptablity then overshadows any points about religion being made and the whole exercise achieves nothing.

As for respect, I have little for the likes of Beyer, Vaz and Iranian Mullahs...however I would always show them politeness and civility

Religious Watch    [18711.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:52] View Near Messages
Liberty Stink

There is no real fairness to the moving of posts. It is just that they are so corrosive to both friends and opponents that they harm the forum

Nobody wants to read such uncivil outpourings, a quick glance at the overall post is enough to classify it as unpleasant in tone and it gets instantly ignored regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

Surely reasoned persuasion of possible supporters is always going to succeed over insulting or verbally abusing them!

Religious Watch    [18710.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:44] View Near Messages

Moved Post from Phantom

LIBERTY STINK [22159. Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 11:18]

I see that you evidently are not intending to stay away, Stink.
Despite your claim to the contrary in a previous post.
So much to us taking you by your word…

If Manhunt 2 to is not an issue, then I really don’t understand why you frequent a board where the issue is regularly raised.

As for you being the only one heroic enough to hate people for certain religious sentiments. I really wouldn’t brag too loudly about that. It’s not a virtue. Perhaps one day you’ll see that. Though I very much doubt it.

Intolerance, from whatever angle tends to be nasty.
So true, there is intolerance from some followers of Islam. It’s beyond doubt. When a people, whipped up into a craze over cartoons, start burning Swiss flags, because they’ve run out of Danish ones, it’s not a healthy state of affairs.

But serial posting hatred towards Islam is no more healthy.
When then we start getting comments on Gypsies and ‘smelly’ ‘tarmac spewing’ ‘Irish tinkers’ I really get fed up.

Finally we get callous sneering on the torturous force feeding of a Guantanamo Bay inmate.

It’s not religious bigotry or racism per se. It’s just BNP material.
I’ve never been one for censoring the BNP. I feel they have a right to vent their garbage, no matter what Messrs Brown & Co think. But there are places for this.
Just as I don’t think hardcore sex videos need be aired in kindergardens, or posts questioning the powers of Ofcom ought to be aired on cookery programs, I don’t think your posts belong on Melonfarmers

You mention your interest in horror films and their censorship.
Well, why not talk about that? Unless it’s an empty claim…
The fact is that your stuff is so off topic as to make people’s eyes water.

I really cannot see what you’re doing here, Stink. It seems fairly obvious that no one here shares your level of visceral hatred towards minorities of various kinds.
If you’re hoping to ‘persuade’ us to your cause, I really think you’re wasting your time.

Fact is, we’re much more interested in Manhunt, Phorm, the BBFC, the DPA and the likes…

These may not be subjects for which anyone is going to have their hands severed in a public square (not yet, anyhow), but they are evident examples of how principles of freedom we hold very dear are being undermined by none too nice people out there.

We are seeing this nation of once fairly laid back freedom-loving people, turned into a country of surveilled, neutered tax donkeys whose every taste and interest is to be prescribed by Harriet Harman and Vernon Coaker.

Many here are interested at the way this ever increasing prescription reveals itself in the small decisions taken in various quarters on our behalf. Be it Ofcom, the BBFC or a broadcaster suddenly decide to cut ‘animal cruelty’ from a John Wayne film or that Basil Brush suddenly be told to clean up his act.

However, we don’t just all site here and post ever more visceral hatred of the BBFC staff or John Beyer.

I simply suggest that you honour your previous commitment and leave us be.
Frankly, the site would be a happier place for it and I’m sure you’d be much more content ranting among similar minded people on a John Gaunt inspired bulletin board, or somewhere similar…

Why stay here? Just to spite us?

Religious Watch    [18709.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:43] View Near Messages

Moved Post from Liberty Stink

And as for being OT...

Melon Farmers have ONE site. And on that site they have, everyday, religious nutter news.
Most of it about Muslims and Islam with the odd bit of Catholic crap thrown in and a sprinkling of `others`.

Just because you so called soldiers of right and might suddenly took scared and decided to move actual talk about religion to a wasteland does not change the fact that religious news and general censorship news are on YOUR site.
The SAME site. ALTOGETHER.

And anyone who thinks the most rabid religions are not at the forefront of censorship, ESPECIALLY ISLAM (the Dutch film has not even opened yet and we have death threats and as for the re-print of the cartoons and threats and arrests for an alleged murder plot of a cartoonist...no Pagans involved), needs a reality check.

I in fact have many other censorship worries and have been part of the horror/cult fandom for many years and have DIRECT, PERSONAL experience with draconian raids over films...
But fucking "manhunt 2" is NOT the big issue here.
The big issues on censorship are where people are actually KILLED for what they say, print, write, film...and that`s religion. Specifically Islam.

And you can moan and rant all you want about banning a computer game...but it is laughable hypocrisy and out and out COWARDICE to then ignore (or kick out of the discussion) censorship issues where those involved don`t just have stuff banned BUT END UP DEAD!!

So hate on me all you want. But I`m the only one on here who has actually tackled the biggest censorship/rights threat the entire world faces.
I`m happy to be hated for that by people who bleed hypocrisy and try to (as indeed the Islamists do) shut me up by calling me racist...even though I`ve not said anything about race at all/ Just religion. Religion that stands for specific things, ideas and doctrines above and beyond race.

I hope that sorts things out and puts certain people straight!

Religious Watch    [18708.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:43] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

Why move my post about the Gypsie/Basil Brush crud from here but leave the post with the links up on here???

And my point was not about actual Gypsies (who are a race, and a persecuted one)...just those being classed as Gypsies when in fact they are nothing of the sort (and as such using the race card and human rights bollocks to protect themselves from basic Laws).

And unless you live in a different universe than me...then selling `lucky` heather is EXACTLY what happens. IN fact London Underground have SPECIFIC signs up telling you about such people.
So are London Underground evil racists too?

I guess very few people on here actually read before they act.

Religious Watch    [18707.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 20:42] View Near Messages

Copied post from lolwhut

Wot no talk about whether or not Basil Brush is a card carrying member of the KKK?

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/Basil-Brush-racism-row-TV.3896645.jp
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?xml=/portal/2008/03/18/ftbasil118.xml
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23387631-5002700,00.html
http://www.tvscoop.tv/2008/03/basil_brush_vul.html

Religious Watch    [18704.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 08:40] View Near Messages
I always think that imposing religious nonsense on other people is pretty much akin to censorship. But it is imposed with one more notch of unreasonableness and it is therefore that much more difficult to argue against rationally.

The right wing rhetoric surely reflects real problems and represents many peoples view on the subject and therefore should be noted. However the typically unrealistic and uncivilised solutions tend to be worse than the problems in hand and are totally unpaletable to the majority. These solutions will simply never be listened to.

It shouldn`t be allowed to close down more reasonable debate though, maybe best simply ignored. Politicians soon learn to ignore people, perhaps a neccesary attribute to getting on with the job.

Religious Watch    [18703.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 08:01] View Near Messages

Moved post from Phantom

LIBERTY STINK [22155. Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 04:56]

I`m sorry, folks.
But do we really need to listen to this hateful drivel?
This could be taken right from a BNP flyer.

I`m all for free speech. But I feel that the forum here is being hijacked for the purpose of right wing demagoguery here.
I cannot see how this bears any relevance to the anti-censorship notion behind this site.
If people want to slag off minorities, I`m sure there are appropriate fora they can find.
But just as I`m not posting about the Dangerous Pictures Act on fora which center on DIY car repair, I just don`t see the point in having this BNP nonsense spouted here.
We`ve done Muslims, now Gypsies. What next? Jews? Blacks? The disabled?
Apart from being downright nasty, it`s just utterly off topic.

No doubt I`ll be accused by Stink of wanting to censor.
The fact remains that what he thinks of Gypsies has nothing to do with the notions behind this site.
I doubt I`m the only one who thinks this.

So please, Stink, can you do us all a favour?
After all, you alrady announed once before you were to leave this board.
Isn`t it time for another attempt at such abstinence?

Religious Watch    [18702.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 08:00] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

----n the controversial episode, which is available on DVD and was recently repeated on the digital channel CBBC, a gypsy woman offers heather and wooden pegs----

Well...er...actually I`ve been offered such shit `services` too.
Lucky fucking heather and the like. In fact these parasites invade many an underground train and high street in London.

But of course they also hide behind this `race` thing. Again what race are these smelly bunch?
Most of the nappy dumping, dog shit dropping, broken down car leaving, tarmac spewing `Gypsies` are actually nothing but Irish tinkers who spew out over the UK because they refuse to work anywhere and Ireland is sensible enough not to want them puking over the sights of scientific interest.

The other bunch may indeed contain a few real Gypsies but most are of various races and nationalities and are simply Euro tramps ripping off whatever country they happen to be in and have nothing at all to do with actual Gypsies. Or a race.

If you have an Eastern European, Irish accent and live in a trailer, drop filth all over the countryside and with a shit load of dodgy cash under the bed you`re a `Gypsie` or a `Traveller` and have the Human Rights brigade standing up for you.

Do exactly the same but have an English accent you`re a dodgy Chav tramp who rightfully gets his collar felt and no one cares.

Racism indeed.

Religious Watch    [18701.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:59] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

Dano...Perhaps shouting remarks about the vicar you beat up being Christian, while you are Muslim, has nothing to do with Islam or being Muslim...

Perhaps you think the rocks thrown through the churches`s windows and MUSLIMS standing outside saying "you should not be here, this should be a mosque" has nothing to do with Islam or being Muslim...

But your sort would. Rational, not chained by PC apologist mindset, people see the facts though.

Is Muslim scum racist??? What race are they??
And if a Muslim beat up an aged vicar, and insulted him for being Christian while doing it...YES I would call them MUSLIM SCUM.

I`d call them Pagan Scum as well, Hindu scum, Catholic scum, Buddhist scum if they did such a thing because of their religion.
But of course none of those religions were involved. Again.

And why don`t all Muslims do this? Well not all Nazis shoved Jews into ovens. Not all BNP members want all non-whites gone, not all WI members bake scones.
That does not mean that if they were truly devout though that they should.

But when we add all the other things that Muslims do to the actual violence...excusing terrorist attacks, helping terrorists, moaning whenever any Muslim is arrested, wanting Sharia Law (even so far as to kill gays and converts), forced marriages, hundreds of missing school girls, whole communities helping to track down women who try to flee, parades calling for violence etc etc....This `not all` certainly becomes a majority. NOT a minority of morons.

But perhaps `not all` of them are truly devout Muslims. Indeed ask many a so called `fanatic` Muslim and they have stated MANY TIMES that there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim if they are truly Muslim.

So those that are mot part of any of the above are not really true Muslims so are not really valid to the trouble at hand.
I`m technically a Christian, C of E. TECHNICALLY.
Can`t say I actually do anything involved with it though. So I can;t really be classed as part of any Christian debate can I?

And I could of course just as easily say to you....
Where are all the members of other religions, on any scale at all worth a damn, carrying out such acts?
WELL??

For something supposedly nothing to do with being Muslim....they ALL seem to be Muslim. What a weird coincidence!

But this apologist, victimhood staus, Islam is not to blame it`s just like any other religion lie is ever present.
A new report in the UK says non-Muslims/whites (WHITES??? There are about 60,000 WHITE Muslims in the UK) should do more to help Muslims feel welcome, as they feel they are not welcome here....

And I wonder why?

I gather this would not have been the case until a bunch of Muslims crashed planes into the Two Towers in the name of Islam (the biggest loss of BRITISH lives in a single attack EVER).

Nor would it have happened before the celebrations shown around the world by other Muslims when 9/11 happened (including Britain).

Nor would these feelings have occurred before another bunch of Muslims, and then another bunch of Muslims and then another bunch of Muslims...ALL in the name of Islam...blew up people in Spain, Bali and London.

Nor would this have been the case before yet more Muslims tried to blow up planes,
planted car bombs in London,
tried to make a fertiliser bomb,
tried to behead a soldier,
tried to blow up yet more buses in London,
crashed a burning Jeep into Glasgow airport
or paraded up and down UK streets with death threat placards.

So who are the victims again?

Religious Watch    [18700.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:58] View Near Messages

Moved post from IanG

Shaun/dano/stinky, it isn`t the ideology. There are 3 Bibles on the bookshelf behind me, along with Gulliver`s Travels, Applied Calculus and a host of other books the contents of which present no danger to me or society whatsoever.

Islam doesn`t "control countries", people do. The law of any land is only as good as the people that make it, live by it, and enforce it. It thus falls to the philosophy of the law makers, whether they choose to respect the lives and acknowledge the rights of their fellow man, or choose to believe a load of pointless, superstitious mumbo jumbo. In general the law makers take the side of whatever gives them power and authority, and historically that`s been God(s), King, or Country (usually in that order).

We`re not a million miles away from the issues we discuss here, and I`d like to point out how far away from a true take on human rights this country`s law makers and censors really are:

"[Judge] Wollman wrote that whatever our intuitive (dare we say commonsense) feelings regarding the effect that extreme violence portrayed in the above-described video games may well have upon the psychological well-being of minors, precedent requires incontrovertible proof of a causal relationship between exposure to the games and some psychological harm."

You can just as easily replace `extreme violence in video games` with `porn on TV` or `nudity in ads` (even `extreme porn`) and you get the same result. Without "incontrovertible proof of a causal relationship between exposure" and the supposed `harm`, our lawmakers do us a great disservice by banning material and even imprisoning those that dare to publish or possess it.

Their latest excuse is the issue of `causing offence`. Causing offence is not harmful. Yet, it is wheeled out as a reason to ban and censure numerous items in this country as if people do have some legal right not to be offended. They DO NOT. Because, in the very act of banning and censuring said items, our `authorities` cause me (and most here) a great deal of offence by treating us like children and second class (rights-less) citizens.

So like I said, the law, and the ideology behind the law, is only as good as the people that make it and enforce it - and frankly our`s sucks as bad as any others sometimes.

Religious Watch    [18699.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:57] View Near Messages

Moved post from Shaun

Well dano, as I have written here, I don`t like Islam much either.

At least not when it controls countries in the way it does. I also believe that if some of the believers have their way, we would ALL be subject to some form of Sharia law here too. That`s not to hate the people. They are people, and have a right to be treated properly as anyone else would be, Human Rights and all. But I certainly don`t care much for their beliefs and way of life as manifest in Islamic countries. I think brutal treatment of women and gays, along with public executions in the town square are somewhat beyond the pale, don`t you ?

Their assaults on freedom of expression in Western countries must be resisted. I hope the powers that be, do so, and I certainly have no "respect" for their particular brand of idiocy. Respect has to be earned, not automatically given.

Race has nothing to do with anything.

Liberty - If you`d present your arguments in a rational manner instead of ranting and raving, we wouldn`t feel so compelled to try and confine you to the religious watch forum, where really this debate should be happening. Except few people go there now.

Religious Watch    [18698.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:56] View Near Messages

Moved post from dano

Liberty Stink do it give it a rest.

You are using the actions of a minority of morons who happen to be Muslim as a reason why we should hate Islam and all Muslims. That`s just bollox.

Muslim scum? I would say that`s racist!

You don`t really add anything to the debate about the worthyness of any particular religion just smears and general all round nastyness.

"Because the reason they did what they did (check the - few - newspaper reports for the remarks also uttered to churchgoers to see that) is BECAUSE they were MUSLIM."

No it`s not because they are Muslim it`s because the are dickheads! Why don`t other Muslims do this then? Explain that one! Maybe it`s because they have been taught right from wrong. Don`t think Muslims no right from wrong?

Religious Watch    [18697.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:55] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

--------Iraqis are being slaughtered by violent religious extremists.------


Well that`s up to them isn`t it!?

they`re not backward children are they?

True, we should have remembered just how barbaric Islamist belief is and worked out that when the dogs were taken off Saddam`s leash they would go back to what they have been doing for a thousand years...ripping each other apart....but I guess we gave them the benefit of the evolutionary doubt.

Hardly anyone`s fault but theirs though is it???


-----I would argue that those who hate Islam and Muslims don`t suffer from a phobia just nasty racism.---


LMAO!!! What race is this again????
What a crock of apologist shit.
Arab, Black, Asian, WHITE. ALL Muslim.
Last month alone 16 POLISH women were suckered into leaving evolution behind and joining Islam in one mosque (read the papers).
So what race is this again???

Lot of Black African Catholics you know, as well as white ex-Nazis like the stinking current Pope.
So what race are Catholics???
And of course...WHAT RACE ARE MUSLIMS???

Fucking racism is in describing MUSLIM scum who beat up a vicar at his Church as Asian!
Asian youths. Not Muslim...oh no, ASIAN.
THAT is racism!
Racism against all those Asian Christians, Asian Hindus, Asian Catholics, Asian non-believers and even Japanese and Chinese!
Racism is NOT calling such people MUSLIM. Because the reason they did what they did (check the - few - newspaper reports for the remarks also uttered to churchgoers to see that) is BECAUSE they were MUSLIM.

They did not attack the vicar because of `Pakistani motives`...But for ISLAMIC MOTIVES!

Yet more MUSLIMS recently attacked an ASIAN Hindu festival (good luck trying to find much reporting on that though), shall we call them Asian too? Despite those who were attacked also being Asian?

Massive increase in attacks on Jews.
COUNTLESS attacks by MUSLIMS on many other religions (and skin colours) that are never reported or hushed up about who did what and why.
A Police force that prosecutes film makers who report hate speech but mot those that did the hate speech.
BBC ignoring/excusing/spinning attacks by Muslims while going all out to take the BNP to court because Griffin gave his personal view on Islam (NO fan of Griffin at all, but he was spot on here).

We could go on and on.
I see unfairness all right, but it`s not against Muslims. It`s against everyone else!

And the worldwide, Islam championed, blasphemy law is getting closer.......

Religious Watch    [18696.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:54] View Near Messages

Moved post from Dano

Shaun.

I don`t really despise Islam or any other religion actually. I don`t have a problem with religion per say (some of it can be preety endearing and heart warming like Jesus in the stable all that even if it is to me a mere fairystory) or religious people just those religious people who try to impose their beliefs on me and others who don`t share their beliefs.
I don`t have a problem with for example Christians and Muslims believing being gay is immoral and that if you are gay you will burn in the fires of hell (although I do believe that is a load of poppycock) but I do have a problem with those Christians and Muslims to seek to impose that belief on homosexuals by pushing for repressive anti-homosexual legislation and opposing legislation that will prevent discrimination against homosexuals.
I never had a problem with Iqbal Saccraine from the Muslim Council Of Britain saying he believes homosexuality to be wrong and immoral (I disagree with the police investigating him for hate crimes) because that`s his belief and he`s free to believe and say it.
But if he had said he was going to lobby for homosexuality to be banned and gays to be locked up then I would have had a problem because then he would be trying to impose his beliefs on others.
I have a big problem with the terrorists who blew up the tubes trains and buses on 7/7/. As much as I am totally opposed to the Iraq war, British/USA foriegn policy and the warmongering scum that is George Bush I don`t buy this argument that they were just misguided angry young men who were violently demonstrating their anger towards the war, foriegn policy, Blair/Bush etc etc.
Watching the video their ringleader recorded before he killed himself and others on a tube train showed how much he truley wanted to impose his beliefs on others.
As much as I hate our foriegn policy I don`t see why a bunch of egotistical crackpot religious extremist nutters should shape it.

Onto another subject and I am deaply ammused by the proposal of Liverpool city council for the BBFC to make films with scenes of smoking in them 18 rated. But this made me preety mad...

“Mr Hull said if the BBFC is not prepared to adopt an 18 certificate then the city will consider using licensing laws to bring in its own stricter ratings for films screened locally.”

So they would go and overide the lawful rulings of the BBFC and impose censorship on young cinema goers! Let`s hope people in Liverpool oppose this.

Oh and another subject...yet more calls for bans on junk food ads. I find so called consumer groups very funny. They seem to be spending more time trying to take away consumer rights and freedoms.
Oh but of course if you are a lentil eating, tofu chomping, non smoking, teetotal, cycling veggie they want you to have all the rights.
Like the odd McDonalds, ciggie, bear and drive a 4x4 and they want you made to suffer until you change your wicked ways!

Religious Watch    [18695.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:53] View Near Messages

Moved post from Shaun

dano,

It is important that people learn to differentiate between the ideology, and the people who believe in it.

One can be free to despise the ideology, and even perhaps seek to eradicate it. The same should not apply to its adherents.

Many believe communism should be eradicated. They don`t generally believe that people who believe in communism should also be eradicated.

One can despise the belief, without any way wishing ANY harm on the believers. Excepting perhaps a wish that they would believe something else instead.

Religious Watch    [18694.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:52] View Near Messages

Moved post from dano

On the subject of Islamophobia that`s a word constantly used to shut down debate and criticism of Islam as a religion.
The general view amongst those on the hard left is that criticism of Islam is racist because Muslims are an oppressed race and therefore any criticism (even respectful criticism) is racist against Muslims and oppresing them.
The overiding view amongst many on the hard left is that because Islam is an oppresed religion it should not be criticised and just defended from oppresion. They see criticism of Islam as failing to side with an oppressed relgion and race and instead siding with it`s oppresors.
Criticism of other religions such as Christanity and Jewdaism is ok because those religions are not (or in the case of Jewdaism no longer) oppressed.
I also think it is seen in terms of majority and minority religion. Because Islam is seen in this country as a minority religion therefore in the eyes those who talk about Islamophobia criticism of it is the majority attacking the minority.
It`s acceptable for a Muslim to criticise the beliefs of a Christian but not vice versa because that would be someone from the majority attacking the minority.


I would argue that those who hate Islam and Muslims, such as BNP nutters like Nick Griffin don`t suffer from a phobia just nasty racism.

Religious Watch    [18693.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:51] View Near Messages

Moved post from Shaun

The trouble is that many like myself, don`t believe it is an irrational view, so by definition it is NOT a phobia, Islamaphobia or otherwise.
The fear is real and in my view quite justified. Instead of these people telling US that our fear is hurting them and global peace, perhaps they should tell us why we should not be afraid of them. My guess is that they couldn`t. Not convincingly so anyway.

Maybe they think its OK to execute people for being gay, or sexually immoral BUT I DON`T. Maybe they think it is OK to be brutal to their women, and lash their fellow human beings for no reason at all, BUT I DON`T. I would despise ANYONE who thought that treating human beings this way was acceptable.

The Islamics THEMSELVES should STOP violating Human Rights everywhere where Islam rules, as they clearly currently do. They should stop hanging people especially ones who did no wrong, stop stoning people to death, stop giving people 500 lashes, and virtually killing folk in the process, they should stop treating women worse than dogs and camels, stop forcing them to marry against their will, and perhaps then, AFTER A LONG LONG TIME none Islamic people might be less afraid of them.

They NEED to FIRST put their OWN HOUSES in order.


The whole situation is completely ridiculous. We are not stupid. We can see what happens when Islam gets a hold. Even in moderate secular Turkey there are serious problems because Islam wants to take over.

But the Islamics, along with our politicians try to treat us like fools telling us there`s nothing to be afraid of... Just like the big bad wolf perhaps...

If anyone is irrational it is religious people. Now if I said I believed in the man in the moon, they`d want to lock me up as mentally deranged... But they can believe in something no more visible with complete impunity...

Remember, Islam ISN`T just a religion. It is held to be complete way of life, political system and religion combined. People forget that.

We should let them know that we will absolutely REFUSE to tolerate their repressive barbaric and evil ways and will STAUNCHLY defend our right to REAL freedom of expression.

Religious Watch    [18692.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:50] View Near Messages

Moved post from MichaelG

Re: Shaun [22130]:

Phobia = An irrational fear of something.

"The report by a special OIC monitoring group said the organisation was struggling to get the West to understand that Islamophobia has dangerous implications on global peace and security and to convince western powers to do more."

So, if it`s a phobia we`re dealing with, why does it have "dangerous implications on global peace and security"? Certainly sounds like a real reason to be afraid to me...

Religious Watch    [18691.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:49] View Near Messages

Moved post from Shaun

Phobia = An irrational fear of something.

Islamaphobia therefore means an irrational fear of Islam.

Given the amount of problems in the world due to Islam, I do NOT think such a fear of Islam would be unreasonable and therefore irrational.

Therefore it is NOT Islamaphobia.

Where Islam comes in, freedom usually goes out the door.

Not only that, people are routinely executed for acts which WOULD NOT EVEN BE A CRIME in free countries.

Gays for example. I am still haunted by the images of those two men, not yet out of their teenage years, who were executed. The Iranian LIARS tried to say they were guilty of child rape, which was an attempt to justify their ABSOLUTELY EVIL form of "justice".

Not to mention poor Atefeh Rajabi.

I tell you what - I`d happily enough hang the fucking "judge" who PERSONALLY executed that tragic lass, and feel no more remorse than shooting a RAT in a sewer. Indeed I would give the bastard a big smile as I pulled the lever. Even though I usually abhor the death penalty, I`d make an exception in the case of that twat.

Most Islamic countries are completely BARBARIC in the way they are run.

Women appear to be treated like dirt. In one country they aren`t even allowed to drive. In others they are routinely executed, again for things that WOULD NOT EVEN BE A CRIME in this country. They have no freedom at all. Even in this country they are often badly treated.

People say we should not fear this kind of thing ?

I don`t like religion of any kind, and I CERTAINLY DO NOT like Islam.

Indeed I fear it. If that makes me an islamaphobe, then so be it. I find NO SHAME whatsover in being frightened of a belief system which often MURDERS innocent people, or people guilty if minor transgressions.

Any censorship brought encouraged by the fools at the UN must be VIGOROUSLY resisted.


They expect us all to accept all this, without a word of critcism ?

They can go screw themselves all the hateful repressive lot of them.

There is no justification to harm individuals, howewever we SHOULD be free to criticise the rottenness and IDIOCY of their beliefs.

Religious Watch    [18690.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:48] View Near Messages

Moved post from Liberty Stink

What`s this?? Jumping up and down about the seeming death of the UK blasphemy laws on this forum, but no mention at all about the story I already mentioned (finally on the MF home page as well) about a WORLDWIDE BLASPHEMY LAW carried on the shoulders of the foul Islamists???

I love the smell of PC hypocrisy in the morning....

Religious Watch    [18689.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:46] View Near Messages

Moved post from MichaelG

Re: nutter bishop...

And these windbags bemoan that the numbers of people attending church are dwindling... are you in the least bit surprised with thoughtless, grossly insensitive bollox like this coming out of the mouths of its representatives?

"Fiona McTaggart, the Labour MP for Slough, said "I would not expect a school to promote material that was lies..."

OK, so that`s all religious texts out of the equation then, can we now get on with teaching our kids something that doesn`t promote division, inequality, intolerance and sexual repression?

Re: Britishness is... A censorial old fossil like Austin Mitchell

A bit late getting my oar in here, but here goes...

MP Austin Mitchell : "I watched just for the purposes of research the pornography and sex channels which are available certainly on my satellite dish. Now these are horrible actually, they should be BANNED I can`t see why we are allowing them. This is a terrible thought if we are equipping the country to watch this degrading rubbish."

Yes Austin, I quite agree, it is RUBBISH and it is HORRIBLE!! I think it`s absolutely outrageous that after the watershed, these programmes still have to abide by ludicrous rules that stipulate that all girls who appear on such programmes have to wear 2 PAIRS of knickers, just in case anyone gets a fleeting glimpse of something all of us have seen, or got, or emerged from at birth, ourselves.

I think it`s disgusting that, for some reason, the powers that be think that the sight of female genitalia is something that adults (who are perfectly entitled by law to view exactly the same thing as close as they like in real life) should be protected from.

I find it inconceivable that one click away on the TV remote, happy and healthy American girls are displaying full frontal nudity on the Playboy channel, whereas the bored looking slappers that we have to put up with on British `erotic` entertainment shows show less skin than you`d see in most `Carry On` films.

"Purposes of research"? Well, at his age, he`s not going to be tuning in for a wank, is he?

Looks like we have yet another mentally deficient MP (probably senile in this case) who`s developed some kind of obsessive, compulsive disorder arising from personal issues with a non-harmful subject-matter and is using (or ABusing) the powers we granted him in an attempt to come to terms with his own shortcomings. Is this really a government or some kind of self-help therapy clinic for MPs? Still, with Keith Vaz and his videogame `problem`, Martin Salter and his BDSM Community `problem`, Fiona McTaggart and Harriet Harman with their male sexuality `problem` and last, but certainly not least, Julian Brazier with his little BBFC `problem`, it would appear as though this repressive old fuckwit is in very good company...

Religious Watch    [18688.   Posted 20-Mar-2008 Thu 07:44] View Near Messages

Moved post from dano

Re: nutter bishop...

"Suppose you went into a school and found in the library material that said the Holocaust never took place?"

What an insult to the millions of Jews who died and suffered in the Holocaust. Suggesting that saying an airy fairy unproven story never took place is the same as denying the slaughter of millions of innocent men, women and children is just disgusting.
It just goes to show the deapths to which some of these religious nutters will sink to get their own way.