STICKY:  ChiefCensor       
The ChiefCensor will wear his hypocrite badge with pride when censoring non-conforming posts, please:
- No spam, libel, slander, etc
- No aggressive personal abuse (except to liken the ChiefCensor to Tony Blair when he censors you)
- No mindless incitement or hate (except of the ChiefCensor when he censors you)

 mikejones    {18765.   Posted 27-Mar-2009 Fri 15:50}       
THE NATURE OF EXISTENCE
www.thenatureofexistence.com

All the Mysteries of the Universe - Explained! Sort of…

What is the most important question there is? After exploring the phenomenon of STAR TREK fans in the acclaimed documentary TREKKIES, filmmaker Roger Nygard is taking on THE NATURE OF EXISTENCE, traveling the globe to the source of the world’s philosophies, religions, and belief systems, interviewing spiritual leaders, scholars, scientists, artists and others who have influenced, inspired, or freaked out humanity.

“I made a list of the eighty-five toughest questions I could think of,” said Nygard, “starting with biggest one, ‘why do we exist?’ and then I began interrogating the widest cross-section of humanity possible.” Here are a few more of the questions asked in the movie: What is man’s purpose? What started the Universe? Where was God during the Holocaust? What is Truth? Should people have sex before marriage? What is the best way to find happiness? Where is the afterlife? Where are the voices in my head coming from? …

How would YOU answer? What journey is more important than one that takes us closer to finding meaning in our existence

Profiled in the film are people like Indian holy man, His Holiness Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (The Art of Living), who described his job as “dehusking” people: “stress is the husk, which covers the light, the joy within a person.”

Nygard spoke with Catholic Archbishop D’Ambrosio in Italy, who believed his is the true religion and said, “To believe in Christ is not easy. But it’s not impossible.”

In Athens, Georgia, Rob Adonis, founder of Ultimate Christian Wrestling, says he looks forward to the afterlife, “In Heaven I’m going to be perfect, I’ll have abs of steel, I’m going to be chiseled, I’m going to have a great tan.”

Taoist Master Zhang Chengda of China’s Azure Cloud Temple on Taishan Mountain, China’s holiest mountain, said, “If you do good in this life, then you can continue practicing Tao in the afterlife.”

Islamic scholar Dr. Zakir Naik maintains, “In Islam, the Truth prevails, not majority.”

In England, evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, said, “Not only do you not need God, it’s positively counterproductive, if you are trying to understand the nature of Existence.”

In Palo Alto, California, Leonard Susskind (co-discovered string theory) explained that modern string theorists are coming to the conclusion that there is not just one Universe, but more likely trillions, if not an infinite number of Universes, all with laws of physics different from ours.

Professor Li Shaoqiang, in Confucious’ home town of Qufu, China, explained that, “Chinese people worship Mao Ze Tung as god because he founded a country.”

And over 100 others like Harvard psychologist and author Daniel Gilbert (Stumbling on Happiness), film director Irvin Kershner (Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back), novelist and Mormon Orson Scott Card (Ender’s Game), and Stonehenge Druids Rollo Maughfling & King Arthur Pendragon….

After a four-year world-wide odyssey, the filmmakers had over 450 hours of footage to boil down to an hour and a half, to bring audiences the best and the most transcendental moments, to present a fascinating look at humanity, and our Universe, seen through the eyes of some of the most interesting people on our planet.

Running time: 93:50

 Paul Tavener    {18763.   Posted 4-Jan-2009 Sun 10:28}       
Some of you might be interested in the post I have just made on the main melonfarmers forum re Radio 4`s Thought For The Day:

http://www.gavinorland.com/religion/thought-for-the-day-my-letter/

 loveandpeace    {18761.   Posted 10-Dec-2008 Wed 03:29}       
LIBERTY STINK:
"And the outrage at such a barbaric act carried out against their Muslim Sisters (with justification for the act being Islamic Sharia Law) from all those peace-loving, compassionate, moderate British Muslims (or indeed Globally) is deafening!

I guess cartoons and books are far more sinful and insulting to them then than the purposeful disfiguring of 2 Muslim children, as we can`t shut the noise up from Muslims when someone draws or writes something (or names a teddy bear)"

LIBERTY STINK {18755. Posted 11-Nov-2008 Tue 13:26}
"So now we have a 13 year old girl used as a suicide bomber, to mostly kill other children, in Iraq.

But lets blame the evil West again and apologise for barbaric Islamists and their religion of peace!

Where are the rallies and marches against such atrocity throughtout the Muslim and (increasingly Muslim anyway) non-Muslim lands FROM Muslims?
Or are cartoons and books bigger sins to them?"


LIBERTY STINK {18754. Posted 27-Jun-2008 Fri 10:14}
------"POLICE sniffer dogs trained to spot terrorists at railway stations may no longer come into contact with Muslim passengers – after complaints that it is against the suspects’ religion.-----


Despite the ONLY... I repeat...ONLY terrorist threat we face comes from Muslims!"

--------I agree very much with Liberty Stink on these issues he has raised above. These are issues my own Muslim community and others have raised and voiced their concerns over with the MEDIA (or at least sections of the media who would listen AND broadcast it!), but yet again, i am afraid it is probably because its not media savvy that ordinary folks do hear about the outrage that Muslims feel about the "acid affair" and the "13 yr old suicide bomber"

I also agree, but hasten to add i am not a self hating Muslim, that Muslims in the UK should allow the Police to use Sniffer dogs etc to do their job. The Muslims, including i, have to "suffer" these procedures for a few reasons: 1- it’s the Law, 2- Muslims should accept we are going through intensive scrutiny and allow such things to proceed (after all the British establishment would never, knowingly, be uncivil with their investigative procedures, unlike a lot of other countries!

A lot of the atheist on here are very good people and i am sure do very good things for humankind. We Muslims should work with you, side by side, because we share many common values and ethics. You are good people and also very intelligent and honest people. As a Muslim i don’t see you as "Atheists" but people who have the potential to show us other Muslims that you can be good and just people without believing in a God. I very much respect that. However, there has to be a "but" somewhere of course :-),i really feel if Atheists like the good folks here did ever become Muslims, you will indeed teach the rest of the Muslim world, what and how true Islam should be practised, and one day that day will come, because you are good people.

Sincerely,

INCREASE THE PEACE.
INCREASE THE LOVE.

 myway    {18760.   Posted 5-Dec-2008 Fri 14:52}       
THE WORLD’S GOLDEN RATIO POINT


www(.)miracleofkaaba(.)com ( for detailed information and pictures )

The Golden Ratio… Phi … 0,61… probably the most spiritual number in math. The mysterious seal that is impressed to the most elites by God. Our heart beat, our DNA, the special shape of the universe named dodecahedron, lots of galaxies spiral structure, perfect human faces and bodies, the lines of the plants’ leaves and many more are designed by the number of the golden ratio.

It didn`t take long time for scientists to find this perfect ratio which is used in the nature`s design. Historical records tell us that this ratio is known for about 4000 years. In the design of the pyramids and many famous architectural work of art this ratio is used. Leonardo Da Vinci and Mimar Sinan are the most important users of this number in the history.

According to this ratio, the number of the ratio which defines the shape was always 0.61.

As we all know, latitudes and longitudes are become as a universal measuring system which are used in coordinate determination and setting the time. God sends his messages with the form of human’s understandings; with their units of measurements, or else the messages won’t be understandable.

As can be understood from the calculations on the latitudes and longitudes the earth’s golden ratio point is at Mecca. The coordinates east longitude +39,82 and the north latitude +21,42 (Google Earth) shows that Kaaba and the holy area is at the earth’s golden ratio point.







(90 + 21,42 = 111,42 111,42 / 180 = 0,61... ), ( 180 +39,82 = 219,82 219,82/360= 0,61... The formula shows the method of calculating of the distance of the city Mecca to the poles and to the equinox line in both ways.)
The Golden Ratio (number of the creation of design and esthetic) = Phi constant = 0,61...

Mecca’s distance to the poles / The distance between North and South poles = 0,61...

Mecca’s distance to the North Pole / Mecca’s distance to the South Pole = 0,61...

Mecca’s distance (west) to the equinox line / The Earth’s perimeter = 0,61...

Mecca’s distance (west) to the equinox line / Mecca’s distance (east) to the equinox line = 0,61...

The inner ratios of the lines that passes through Mecca and combining the poles and the equinoxes = 0,61...

In the verse that tells about Mecca and Kaaba (3:96) the number of the letters until the word Mecca (29) / The number of the verse’s total letters (47) = 0,61...

If we consider the map of longitudes and latitudes as a painting of an artist, the world map will be a divine painting; the one which’s deepness will never end, a living painting. If we want to show the main Golden Raito point in a world map which is designed by the values of the longitudes and latitudes in the program of the Phimatrix (An American programmed which helps to show the golden ratios of the paintings), it will show us Mecca. The numeric values that the longitudes and the latitudes can take as the Golden Raito formula can only be performed in a single point in the world. The coordinates under the Ecuador or the west of the Greenwich are called as – (minus). Because of that the earth can only have one golden ratio point and Great God choose this as Mecca and then he has designed the verse in the Holy Quran by the Golden Ratio and he never let this area clear away.
(3:96) “The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings:”

This holy city’s name is only used only once in whole Quran. In the verse it talks about the existence of the evidences that conduces people believes in this area. One of the evidences is; the area is a Golden Ratio point. Another miracle that cannot be a coincidence shows it self in the verse. Until the word Mecca (Mecca word included) the number of the letters are 29 and 47 is the number of the letters in the whole verse. We will do it like we have done in the world map, without any force. The rate of the number of the letters until the word Mecca to the number of the whole letters in the verse is 0,61 the golden ratio. If a word more or less the ratio will be broken down. We have done the same calculation in the latitude and longitude map of the world; The distance until Mecca to the whole distance.


It is a miracle that Mecca’s / Kaaba’s place on earth is designed by the verse in the Holy Quran, Muslim’s holy book for over 14 centuries and it states that in this holy area the evidences are lurked in that will cause communities’ searching for the right way. It proves that it is written by a force that knows the golden ratio, can see the earth from the space and knows the measurements that are accepted in the future, knows math very well, God.
Besides it is known that the surface is covered with the liquid energy canals that are called The Ley Lines. The lines are named like "The world`s energy", "The telluric energy" or the "Global Bioenergetics". These lines are a kind of energy, partly from the surface`s magnetic power, that is assumed, which travels the whole world on a linear way. This term is firstly used by an English researcher named Alfred Watkins in 1925, who "rediscovered" these lines.
The Holy Rivers that is in myths, actually expresses the ley lines, "the surface chakras". One of the most powerful areas of these chakras is in Mecca, the holy lands.
This discovery is made by the 3d graphic artist, director who made some works that are world-wide famous, Erdem Çetinkaya. Right now his work of documentary-movie which includes the miracle of Kaaba and the miracles named “Holy Mysteries”.

 Ben Masada    {18759.   Posted 29-Nov-2008 Sat 14:57}       
=========================================
+++ WERE THERE TWO DIFFERENT JESUSES? +++
=========================================

When Luke wrote the book of Acts to Theophilus, he guaranteed him that he had dealt with ALL that Jesus did and taught until the end of his life on
earth. (Acts 1:1,2) If Luke is someone worthy believing, there must be something wrong with Matthew.

1. I am not talking about the huge difference in the genealogy of Jesus. (Mat. 1:1-17)

2. I am not talking about the anxiety of Mary to explain her pregnancy without having yet slept with Joseph. (Mat. 1:18-25)

3. I am not talking about the Astrologers from the East who came to worship the new-born king of the Jews. (Mat. 2:1,2)

4. I am not talking about the star that stood still over the place where the child was. (Mat. 2:9-11)

5. I am not talking about the flight with the child to Egypt. (Mat. 2:13-15)

6. I am not talking about the slaughtering of the innocent under the age of two with the Herodian intent to catch Jesus. (Mat. 2:16-18)

7. I am not talking about a lot of other things that Luke ignored in his accurate account of EVERYTHING about Jesus to Theophilus.

Here`s what I am talking about: While the Jesus of Matthew was still in Egypt, waiting for Herod to die, the Jesus of Luke was born, circumcised after eight days, presented in the Temple on the 33rd day, and immediately after these requirements of the Law, the family headed back to Nazareth. (Luke 2:21,22,39)

In the meantime, the Jesus of Matthew was still trapped in Egypt, waiting for the word of the "angel" with the news that Herod had finally died. Perhaps in order to spare the embarrassment, the age of this Jesus is omitted.

Therefore, how many Jesuses were there? If there was but one, either gospel writer is lying or neither ever met each other. But then again, how about the spirit that inspired the revelation? I think Christianity will better off if we don`t remove that stone. The smell will be too strong.

Ben

 Ben Masada    {18758.   Posted 27-Nov-2008 Thu 07:18}       
===================================
+++ THE METAMORPHOSE OF APOLLOS +++
===================================

The text is in Acts 18:24-28.

The Sect of the Nazarenes was blooming in Alexandria. Apollos, a Nazarene
Jew from Alexandria had decided to go on a trip North to Ephesus. Being
well-known as a charismatic and eloquent Teacher in the Scriptures, he was
invited to deliver the Shabbat sermon in the local Nazarene Synagogue. The
text says that he would speak about Jesus with accuracy. (Acts 18:25)

It happens that on that same day, a couple of former Jews called Aquila and Priscilla were attending services at the same Synagogue. The couple had recently arrived from Italy because of a decree signed by Claudius Caesar, that would expell all Jews from Rome. (Acts 18:2) Their trade was
Tentmaking. Since Paul was also a Tentmaker, they somehow met, got together, and Paul succeeded to convert them. (Acts 18:1-3)

So, back to the Nazarene Synagogue of Ephesus, Aquila and Priscilla realized that there was something wrong with Apollos` sermon. He would not
mention even once that Jesus was the Messiah, son of God, and that he had
resurrected. After the services, they invited Apollos to their home, converted him to the Pauline way they believed about Jesus, and the Apollos who returned was no longer the same who had left. He would now preach that Jesus was the Messiah. (Acts 18:28) He was still charismatic and eloquent, but the previous accuracy about Jesus was no longer the same. Apollos had completely metamorphosed.

The point here for discussion is: If Apollos was an expert in the Scriptures, and a member of the Sect of the Nazarenes, how come he had to
know from Christians all those things about Jesus? The obvious conclusion
is that the whole thing had been fabricated by Paul about 30 years after
Jesus` death.

Now, please, kindly share with me your comments.

Ben

 Ben Masada    {18757.   Posted 26-Nov-2008 Wed 18:49}       
=============================
+++ THE PAULINE PARADOX +++
=============================

When Paul started preaching about Jesus as the Messiah and son of God, he
never realized that he had created a huge paradox.

You see, for Jesus to be the Messiah, he had to be a biological son of Joseph`s, who was the one from the Tribe of Judah. Mary was from the Tribe
of Levi. She was of the family of Elizabeth, a descendant of Aaron, the
Levite. (Luke 1:5,36)

Since Jesus is also claimed to be son of God, he could not have been the
Messiah, because God is not subject to human genealogies.

On the other hand, if Christians decide to grab the chance of at least make of Jesus the Messiah by agreeing that he was Joseph`s biological son,
he could not be son of God; and here the situation gets worse, because even the doctrine of the Trinity will collapse.

That`s indeed a paradox that can be conceived only by faith, which requires no explanation. But then again, where faith begins, knowledge ends; and for lack of knowledge people perish. (Hosea 4:6)

Now, if there is anyone out there with enough wisdom to unriddle this Pauline paradox, I`ll be happy to take off my hat to him or her. In the meantime, the Sphinx rests among the Egyptian pyramids while waiting for the passers-by. Good luck!

Ben

 LIBERTY STINK    {18756.   Posted 14-Nov-2008 Fri 04:46}       
YET MORE acid attacks on Afghan girls!

And the outrage at such a barbaric act carried out against their Muslim Sisters (with justification for the act being Islamic Sharia Law) from all those peace-loving, compassionate, moderate British Muslims (or indeed Globally) is deafening!

I guess cartoons and books are far more sinful and insulting to them then than the purposeful disfiguring of 2 Muslim children, as we can`t shut the noise up from Muslims when someone draws or writes something (or names a teddy bear).

 LIBERTY STINK    {18755.   Posted 11-Nov-2008 Tue 13:26}       
So now we have a 13 year old girl used as a suicide bomber, to mostly kill other children, in Iraq.

But lets blame the evil West again and apologise for barbaric Islamists and their religion of peace!

Where are the rallies and marches against such atrocity throughtout the Muslim and (increasingly Muslim anyway) non-Muslim lands FROM Muslims?
Or are cartoons and books bigger sins to them?

 LIBERTY STINK    {18754.   Posted 27-Jun-2008 Fri 10:14}       
------POLICE sniffer dogs trained to spot terrorists at railway stations may no longer come into contact with Muslim passengers – after complaints that it is against the suspects’ religion.-----


Despite the ONLY... I repeat...ONLY terrorist threat we face comes from Muslims!

Fuck `em! Plane tickets are cheap nowadays and sadly Muslim countries are many...so go there if a dog doing its job to safeguard us ALL offends you so.

 LIBERTY STINK    {18753.   Posted 8-May-2008 Thu 15:03}       
-----The biggest anguishes and distresses which are effecting the lives in this age are low morality, not being mindful of each other’s right, neglecting real worship of God.-----


Translation time!

----low morality----

Dreadful Homosexuals and people who have sex without being married or Muslim and non-Muslim together.



----not being mindful of each other’s right----

Your right to do and say whatever you want in the name of your religion and to those against it.



-----neglecting real worship of God-----

The REAL worship of God is of course only through Islam by being a Muslim.



------The biggest anguishes and distresses which are effecting the lives in this age are-----

ARE...Nutty religious freaks who live next door to you while plotting to blow up buses, trains, nightclubs, airports and airplanes in the name of Islam.

 PromisedMESSIAH    {18752.   Posted 8-May-2008 Thu 03:15}       
Sincere Prayer has to Produce Courtesy and High Morals.
========================================================

Peace be upon you!

Great effort is required to absorb the grace of God. A struggle is needed, only then God quickly come to His servants, accepts their efforts, blesses them, and gives them the strength to do acts which attract His pleasure. Allah says: And those who strive in Our path, We will surely guide them in Our ways….(70:29)

The most important way to change the self to good and get nearness to God is to pay attention to offer Prayer / Salat.

Surely Prayer restrains (one) from indecency and manifest evil….. (46:29) . But we observe some people who offer Prayer, their attitude towards others is not so good. One may think what is benefit of Prayer then?

Fault is not with the Prayer. Meeting the conditions of Prayer is very important as is said in early part of (46:29) : Establish the Prayer….. The holy prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) has directed that when you stand to offer salat, bear in mind as if you are seeing God or at least consider that God is watching you.

The understanding and believe that God is seeing me and reads my mind, makes a person very careful in conduct. God can not be deceived; He knows which of one’s Prayer is being offered with sincerity, for His sake and to make the self pure. He knows which Prayer is just a show off.

God does not only watch while one offer Prayer but He also watches one’s daily talks and tasks. Thus, it is essential to keep each of deeds right so that Prayer is accepted. In these days, God is being forgotten and to bring about the spiritual revolution the blessed promised reformer (mta.tv) has stressed to offer Prayer for positive changes in self.

Prayer are the measure of one’s courtesy and state of moral. And also, high morals can be viewed as fruits of one’s Prayer.

The holy prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said that charity keeps the distress away….. The biggest anguishes and distresses which are effecting the lives in this age are low morality, not being mindful of each other’s right, neglecting real worship of God. Hence, giving charity, according to one’s capacity will result in absorbing God’s blessings. Again, like the Prayer, charity is to please God, not people.

Alongwith offering Prayer and charity, the other essentials are treating others with kindness and courtesy, safeguarding the trusts, fulfilling the commitments, talking truth and without any twists, avoiding and praying against jealousy which burns human from within, staying away from absurdities of all types which throw a person into the lap of Satan. To help achieve these virtues and spiritual enhancement, the institution of Ahmadiyya Caliphate is the timely blessing of God. The holy Caliph prays may everyone be aware of their reponsiblities and continue to get blessings.

 LIBERTY STINK    {18751.   Posted 4-May-2008 Sun 02:31}       
Yeah yeah yeah...Waffle waffle, bullcrap.

I`ll go by what happens in the real world, in real life, allaround the globe.

"""It reported that last year in Sulaymaniyah, a city of 1 million people, there were 407 reported offences, beheadings, beatings, deaths through "family problems", and threats of honour killings, police in Karbala recently revealed 25 reports of rape.

Honour killings have been blocked by fundamentalists.
Honour killings are not actually a crime in the eyes of the government, said Houzan Mahmoud, who has had a fatwa on her head since raising a petition against the introduction of sharia law in Kurdistan.

In the past five years it is has got [much] worse, we have been pushed back to the dark ages.
Women are being beheaded for taking their veil off. Self immolation is rising – women are left with no choice.
Sharia law is being used to underpin government rule, denying women their most basic human rights."""


Just a normal day under Islamic rule.

 PromisedMESSIAH    {18750.   Posted 28-Apr-2008 Mon 11:49}       
IN A mosque, regardless of wordly positions, people stand together as one entity in one place, humbly in presence of Allah to worship Him. It increases the grace of His blessings more than before. Hence, reward of offering a prayer in mosque is twenty seven times greater, according to holy prophet of Islam.

Reward of each deed is dependent upon its intention, according to another hadith. It means in a mosque one must join others in worship without discriminatory feelings against others to get high rewards. For those who forget real object of prayer /salat woe is said (107:5) .

It is very important to purify one’s thoughts to draw benefits from salat / prayer. Point is explained by the Ahmadiyya promised messiah as : Salat during which the heart is wandering somewhere, thoughts are elsewhere and the mouth is uttering something else is a curse. It is thrown back and is not accepted…..Only that salat is real which gives pleasure. Such a salat is a source of generating hatred for sin. This is very salat about which it is said that it is the zenith of a believer and is a source of progression for a believer.

 Religious Watch    {18749.   Posted 21-Apr-2008 Mon 10:03}       
loveandpeace

A basic feature of most religions is that, to various degrees, they teach people to be unquestioningly faithful to people supposedly speaking for god.

So then it depends how good these spokespeople are, as to whether the followers are extreme or moderate, saints or terrorists.

Even if a religion isn`t directly responsible for the action of adherants who don`t follow the `correct` message, they should be held to account for teaching children to grow up to be unthinkingly obedient. This is just asking for trouble.

 loveandpeace    {18748.   Posted 20-Apr-2008 Sun 03:18}       
Liberty Stink:

I agree with you. It is wrong and madness for a religious "revert" to be targeted in any shape or form as you report, even in a Muslim country.

It is also appalling and to be condemned if what you say is true that this young man was murdered for his views even if they were blasphemous.

This is NOT Islamic at all! It’s the action of some mad, deranged ignorant mob that happen to call themselves Muslims. Consider this: if there is a God as most religions claim and that he is a God of peace/love/mercy, would He really advocate such mindless anger fuelled actions in His name. The answer, plain to see, is no he would not. This fundamental understanding of all religions is the starting point in knowing God…all else is man made false teachings.

A famous point in the Islamic history was when Muhammad returned finally to Mecca from exile and upon his arrival, he simply forgave all those who had persecuted him and even killed his relations. In fact he forgave the whole of Mecca, for all their wrong acts of persecuting the early Muslims. This, my friend, is true Islam, not the madness you and i are seeing around us!

Let our energies target the mindless minds of the human beings around us, not the Holy Scriptures or its teachings.

Justice has to prevail and the truth will win, as always.

 LIBERTY STINK    {18747.   Posted 19-Apr-2008 Sat 16:00}       
----A British teacher killed in Somalia was targeted because he had converted from Islam to Christianity, his widow has claimed.---

NO NO NO. Shame on you `Melon farmers` for this Islamophobic publishing!
This was just a coincidental random act and nothing to do with Islam!
As always.

 LIBERTY STINK    {18746.   Posted 17-Apr-2008 Thu 04:40}       
---- Jagdish Kumar, a 22-year-old worker at a leather factory in Karachi, was murdered by his colleagues after he allegedly passed blasphemous remarks during a debate on religion.----

The normal, average, everyday members of `the religion of peace and tolerance` strike again.

Not clerics or spiritual leaders, not known extremists...Just your normal, run of the mill, working stiff Muslims.
You know I bet they were the classic examples of those `moderates` we hear of every day...until.........

 PromisedMESSIAH    {18745.   Posted 3-Apr-2008 Thu 08:12}       
ROLE OF MORALITY FOR THE SURVIVAL OF A RELGION
**********************************************
1- Morality is virtually essential for the survival of religion itself……When moral standards are lowered, religion is the first to suffer.

2- Dishonesty and immorality corrode even the most powerful man-made edifices of law and constitution…….The spiritual edifices of religion are likewise corroded and turned to dust by the dry rot of immorality……This is the key to the understanding of decadence at all levels of religious beliefs and practices.

3- The unity of God is split and continues to be splintered because of lowering standards of morality……Idolatory begins to replace the Unity of God, and idols occupy the houses of God turning them into temples.

4- Deep below such destructive phenomenon, one will always find the worms of dishonesty at work……Dishonesty becomes a deadly poison when it works at the level of leadership, but no deadlier poison can be conceived than dishonesty WHEN it works at the level of religious leadership……In the name of God, they play havoc with the peace of His creation The throne of God is occupied by the pseudo-gods of religious hierarchy.

Therefore :

It would be much wiser to judge religions at their nascent stage rather than latter, when through human interpolation they become mere ruins of their noble and humble beginning.

 PromisedMESSIAH    {18744.   Posted 3-Apr-2008 Thu 07:53}       
==============================================================
REFLECTIONS OF THE DIVINE ATTRIBUTE OF FORBEARANCE (AL-HALEEM)
==============================================================
Peace be upon you!

1= God has asked the believers to imbue His Divine attributes on human level. His Prophets are given the greatest capability for this.
***
2= The-Forebearing is among divine attributes Forebearance connotes compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, kindness and suppressing anger. These qualities are vital for society and for spirituality….The days and years of Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on Him) were full of instances of forebearances.
***
3= For example: Once a man, during talk, kept touching the beard of holy prophets . The companion Hadhrat Umar (r.a) was very upset at this show of disrespect but the blessed Holy Prophet instructed him not to be harsh with visiting man.
***
4= Zaid ibn Su`nah, a great jewish scholar in the time of holy prophet, narrated : He recognized all but two signs of prophethood when he saw the face of holy prophet. Two signs which were not immediately evident to him were: i-Holy prophet.s forebearance would precede his rasheness. ii- His forebearance would increase upon facing intense rashness…One day a Bedouin came to prophet and said that a group of his people had accepted Islam and he used to tell them by embracing this faith there would be great increase in their provisions. Now because of no rain, there was famine and he feared his people would leave Islam as they came in with greed… The Bedouin requested for their help.The Holy Prophet looked to hadhrat Ali but he informed no supplies could be given…The narrator Zaid, the scholar, offered the holy prophet to rent him a specific palm (dates) garden for a ceratin time for quick relief….Instead the holy prophet told Zaid that he would rent him a fix amount of date-fruit until such period from unspecified gardens……A pact was agreed and Zaid paid for particular dates for a fixed time…. The holy prophet gave the payment to the man with instruction to help his people with fairness.Just few days before the expiry of fixed period Zaid came to holy prophet and seized him by his dress and angrily said: why do not you pay back my dues?.......Zaid saw that such attitude of his was angrily challenged by hadhrat Umar …But the holy prophet, who was looking at Zaid quietly and patiently said: Umar! Instead of being angry, you should pay off his loan well. Give him extra saa` (44 Kg) because you terrified him. Order was obeyed…….At this point Zaid disclosed his identity to hadrat Umar and told him that he deliberately talked to holy prophet in that since he wanted to check the two signs of forebearnace; preceding of forebearance upon his rash and increasing of forebearance on encountering excessive rashness. He found these two signs, too, in holy prophet. He embraced the faith and announced to donate half of his wealth for it.
***
5= The holy prophet always resolved family matters with wisdom and no annoyance.
***
6= His blessed model was for ever to be followed and practiced. Only listening, reading and enjoying about it is not the goal….Sometimes people are cruel to their servants…. Some people are not kind to wives and are extendedly brutal….Teaching of the kind and gentle conduct is for practice.
***
7= In an incident, at the victory of Mecca, pardon was sought for a fled person Safwan. The blessed holy prophet granted it. The fled man sent a message that a token of assurance be given. He was given a turban of the holy prophet which he had on when he entered in Mecca as victorious. Safwan was assured of the forebearance of the holy prophet.
***
8= The real champion is not one who beat an opponent, rather a real champion is one who controls himself when angered….Said the blessed holy prophet……Once He saw two enraged men fighting. He said he knew the words which can dissipate their anger; these are : I seek refuge with Allah from accursed satan…He directed that if a standing angry person sits or sitting angry person lies down the anger will go away…..He never felt anger on any personal issue but only on Divine matters.
***
9= A man complained that he always did good to his relatives but always got bad reaction The blessed holy prophet said his actions covered the meanness of his relatives and as long as he is firm on his way Allah.s help would be with him.He said Allah liked the two qualities of forebearance and dignity.
***
10= Forebearance connotes compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, kindness and suppressing anger. These qualities are vital for society and for spirituality.
***
11= According to holy caliph, forebearance was also shown by the holy promised messiah ( mta.tv ) who once said: With the exception of indecency all weaknesses and petulant behavior peculiar to women should be tolerated. It is shameful that a man should fight a woman. He never spoke harshly to anyone. His opponents would come by and use extremely rude language which he would never react to. Instead, he prayed for them. His compassion was keen and he subdued the rage…..He taught ( as the blessed holy prophet commanded ) to tolerate the abuse of a guest as he was not among followers.
***
12= The most supreme reflecton of the divine attribute The-Forebearing (Al-Haleem ) was the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). In his footsteps, the Promised Messiah (on whom peace) has shown blessed models for reformation. May Allah enable all to imbue divine attributes.
LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE.....Thanks

 LIBERTY STINK    {18743.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 11:47}       
LMAO! You run away crying.
You don`t reply because you`ve been shown up to be as weak and irrelevant as what you post.

But just remember the next time you post ignorant, farcical garbage as truth and fact I`ll be there. EVERY SINGLE TIME.
To put a stop to the apologists who are as much a danger to this country as the Islamists they cuddle up to.
MF...tis a disgrace.

 DarkAngel5    {18742.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 10:18}       
No Liberty Stink, I am not ignoring your arguments, I am ignoring YOU because you are incapable of having an adult conversation.

When you learn to debate in a sensible and rational manner, and not come accross like some angry schoolchild, I may consider your posts worthy of responding to.

In the meantime I shall bid you good day, feel free to post what you like in response, I won`t be reading them.

 Religious Watch    {18741.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:40}       

Moved post from Liberty Stink

So in fact Darkangel you are going to ignore all the facts I posted against you.

Suits me. The silence speaks volumes.

When you actually have anything to back up your laughable, apologist, post you made and can counter anything I said in reply please do. Until then you have nothing valid to say or add.

Running away crying about `rudeness` still means you are just running away.
Because you hoped either no one would answer your utterly wrong points or they`d agree with you as this place is full of such apologists as your less than good self.

But unfortunately for you you got me answering you. And your remarks were shown up for what they ALL were. Utterly incorrect on every level.

here you go I`ll make it less rude for you, see if you still run away from answering.




------Half the problem with Islam that i can see is that most of its followers are from 3rd world countries who don`t know better. I`m fairly sure that if these backwards folks followed christianity they would be just as bad.---


I must have missed all these African Catholic suicide bombers, convert killers and stoning mobs calling out God`s name as they slice a guys head off like a pig.

Even being raised in the UK and going to University does not stop you strapping a bomb to yourself to claim your virgins when Islam comes a calling.



-----You`ve only got to look at those preachers in the deep south of the US to see that.----

Er....No actually.

Even Jerry Falwell are not in the same league of murderous hate and violence loving exhaltation as many a Muslim cleric we have seen and heard!
Sorry. But you`re utterly and completely wrong.

Show me even one American preacher who calls for people who offended God or Jesus to be beheaded...
Show me one who has openly preached of other religions as Pigs and monkeys....
Show me one who has literally called for homosexuals to be executed...
Show me one who preachers converts away from Christiaity should be murdered...
Show me one who defends and even instructs wife beating...
Show me one who has defended and praised suicide bombing or indeed warfare!

And you don`t have to go to the Deep South of anything to hear all that said by Muslim preachers as ALL that is pretty much daily sermons as normal even in `moderate` UK mosques as we have seen!



------It basically took all the worst parts assosiated with Islam and made out it was all like that.----

No, It took all the general and currently active all over the world aspects of Islam and made it look, correctly, that a lot if not most of Islam is like that.
Seems fair to me.
As a simple look on the Internet any day of the week will show you.


And we can even compare like with like right now.
Scorsese? Monty Python? Sinead O`Connor? `Jerry Springer the Opera` writers?
All fine and dandy and not in fear or hiding for their lives.

Wilders?

Surrounded by six bodyguards, has received 600 death threats, sometimes he and his wife have been moved into prison cells for their safety and he currently has a fatwa for his death on his head.

Yeah....No difference is there?




WELL????



And again you show an utter lack of any understanding about the things you try to debate.

------terrorist atrocities being carried out in Northern Ireland up until a few years ago. ----

????????
Sorry? What religion was this then? Catholicism?
Strange then that a Catholic in Africa say had no interest whatsoever in a United Ireland.
Northern Ireland was a political war. It just so happened it was the Catholics that wanted to be joined to the rest of Ireland.
But the fight was for a united Ireland...IT WAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH SPREADING ANY KIND OF RELIGION, DOCTRINE, OR INVOLVED ANY OTHER CATHOLICS WHO HAD NO LINKS TO IRELAND!!
It was an Irish cause...not a Catholic Church cause! Yes?? Right.

Dear me.

 Religious Watch    {18740.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:39}       

Moved post from DarkAngel

Liberty Stink

last response to me was just plain rude. If you are incapable of debating in a calm and rational manner then why should anyone wish to discuss anything further with you?

Secondly, if you want evidence of badly behaved christians, just look at all the terrorist atrocities being carried out in Northern Ireland up until a few years ago. What about those loonies in the US who go around blowing up abortion clinincs and murdering doctors?

Have you actually read the bible? A lot of it is fairly unpleasant.

Again, I have no love for that particular religion, no more than any other. But the way you rant and rave on occaisions doesn`t exactly show non-theists or libertarians in a very postive light now does it?

Might I suggest taking a deep breath and counting to ten before responding in future?

 Religious Watch    {18739.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:38}       

Moved post from Phantom

Stink,
Will you please give it a rest.
You promised to leave this board.
Stick to your word.

 Religious Watch    {18738.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:37}       

Moved post from Liberty Stink

Oh dear.

------Half the problem with Islam that i can see is that most of its followers are from 3rd world countries who don`t know better. I`m fairly sure that if these backwards folks followed christianity they would be just as bad.---


WHAT?! I must have missed all these African Catholic suicide bombers, convert killers and stoning mobs calling out God`s name as they slice a guys head off like a pig.

And it seems selective memory loss is rampant...Even being raised in the UK and going to University does not stop you strapping a bomb to yourself to claim your virgins when Islam comes a calling.

So enough of the apologist rubbish please.


-----You`ve only got to look at those preachers in the deep south of the US to see that.----

Er....No actually.
How pissed am I that you make me defend nutty Baptists, Catholics and the rest!
Even fucking scum like Jerry Falwell are not in the same league of murderous hate and violence loving exhaltation as many a Muslim cleric we have seen and heard!
Sorry. But you`re utterly and completely wrong.
Even if we compare fanatics like Falwell...You`re STILL wrong.

Show me even one American preacher who calls for people who offended God or Jesus to be beheaded...
Show me one who has openly preached of other religions as Pigs and monkeys....
Show me one who has literally called for homosexuals to be executed...
Show me one who preachers converts away from Christiaity should be murdered...
Show me one who defends and even instructs wife beating...
Show me one who has defended and praised suicide bombing or indeed warfare!

Because if not then you`re flat out wrong.
And you don`t have to go to the Deep South of anything to hear all that said by Muslim preachers as ALL that is pretty much daily sermons as normal even in `moderate` UK mosques as we have seen!

Nothing remotely, in the 21st century, compares.
IF Islam goes through a reformation like Christianity did then maybe you won`t be so wrong some day.

But until then......


------It basically took all the worst parts assosiated with Islam and made out it was all like that.----

No, It took all the general and currently active all over the world aspects of Islam and made it look, correctly, that a lot if not most of Islam is like that.
Seems fair to me. As a simple look on the Internet any day of the week will show you.


And we can even compare like with like right now.
Scorsese? Monty Python? Sinead O`Connor? `Jerry Springer the Opera` writers?
All fine and dandy and not in fear or hiding for their lives.

Wilders?

Surrounded by six bodyguards, has received 600 death threats, sometimes he and his wife have been moved into prison cells for their safety and he currently has a fatwa for his death on his head.

Yeah....No difference is there?

 Religious Watch    {18737.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:36}       

Moved post from Liberty Stink

http://www.iheu.org/node/3123

Just in case you missed this little news. Strange really given how so forthright you all are over `freedoms`.

"""For the past eleven years the organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) has been tightening its grip on the throat of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Yesterday, 28 March 2008, they finally killed it.

With the support of their allies including China, Russia and Cuba (none well-known for their defence of human rights) the Islamic States succeeded in forcing through an amendment to a resolution on Freedom of Expression that has turned the entire concept on its head.

The UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression will now be required to report on the “abuse” of this most cherished freedom by anyone who, for example, dares speak out against Sharia laws that require women to be stoned to death for adultery or young men to be hanged for being gay, or against the marriage of girls as young as nine, as in Iran.

There has been a seismic shift in the balance of power in the UN system. For over a decade the Islamic States have been flexing their muscles. Yesterday they struck. There can no longer be any pretence that the Human Rights Council can defend human rights.

The moral leadership of the UN system has moved from the States who created the UN in the aftermath of the Second World War, to the Islamic States, whose allegiance is to a narrow, medieval worldview defined exclusively in terms of man’s duties towards Allah.

Yesterday’s attack by the Islamists, led by Pakistan, had the subtlety of a thin-bladed knife slipped silently under the ribs of the Human Rights Council.

For the first time in the 60 year history of UN Human Rights bodies, a fundamental human right has been limited simply because of the possible violent reaction by the enemies of human rights.

The violence we have seen played out in reaction to the Danish cartoons is thus excused by the Council – it was the cartoonists whose freedom of expression needed to be regulated. And Theo van Gogh can be deemed responsible for his own death.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights died yesterday. Who knows when, or if, it can ever be revived.

I used to wonder what States who felt it necessary to kill people because they change their religion thought they were doing in the Human Rights Council. Now I know.

Roy W Brown
Geneva, 29 March 2008 """


But hey! Remember I`m a supposed racist, I`m wrong about being so `obsessed` about peaceful Islam and of course you still have to fight the good fight against a censored "Manhunt 2" and a crisp advert.

 Religious Watch    {18736.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:34}       

Moved post from DrakAngel

Just seen that Dutch film about Islam "Fitna" or whatever it was called.

I can see why it caused a bit of a furore, to be honest with you it was rather like those BNP propaganda videos, only a lot less subtle. It basically took all the worst parts assosiated with Islam and made out it was all like that.

Half the problem with Islam that i can see is that most of its followers are from 3rd world countries who don`t know better. I`m fairly sure that if these backwards folks followed christianity they would be just as bad.

You`ve only got to look at those preachers in the deep south of the US to see that.

I don`t think that the film should be banned, I think it should be shown and judged on its own merits.

 Religious Watch    {18735.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:33}       

Moved post from DarkAngel

Liberty Stink.

You are "Pat Condell" and I claim my £5!!!!

:D

 Religious Watch    {18734.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:32}       

Moved post from Liberty Stink

------The UK`s treatment of asylum seekers falls seriously below the standards of a civilised society, a report says.
-----


OH PLEASE!!
Strange then how so fucking many keep flooding in then!
Can anyone name a softer, weaker, bend over and take it, country as far as migrants go?

And the latest statistics show we `benefit` from just 28p a week per migrant as far as the economy goes.
Which is then wiped out by the underlying costs and massive damage done to communities (no go areas?...oh yes).
Schools (almost all London schools now have a minority of English speaking pupils).
Hospitals (maternity units all over the country having to close as they are full...and seeing as the average British family now has LESS children I think we know why they are full)
Councils spending untold millions on translating and translators.
And dark ages religions gaining political and social power by the influx of migrant delusionists (both Islam and Catholicism...the worst religions the world still cradles...have had numbers massively boosted by migrants).

"falls seriously below the standards of a civilised society"?
Yeah, I would say that`s correct in how this Government treats it`s own people!

 Religious Watch    {18733.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 09:29}       

Moved post from Liberty Stink

ARE WE WAKING UP YET!?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/5655041.html

WORLDWIDE Blasphemy Law, with a MASSIVE Islamic bias, has been passed by the U.N.

Welcome to your future. You can remove the blinkers now. If you want.

 dano    {18732.   Posted 1-Apr-2008 Tue 06:09}       
Liberty Stink...

"Leftists (read communists) side with Islam as it`s the best weapon they have to destroy The Western capitalist democracies (they all live in)."

Not really. They side with Islam because they see it as being oppressed by the West.

"Scumbags like Livingstone and the fetid Galloway support Islam because it has the same enemy they do!
Democracy. The West. Capitalism."

Dunno about Livingstone but Galloway supports Islam because Muslims are his favourite oppressed minority of the day. Not that he`s actually done much for them, least of all in his consituancy of Bethnel Green where once he got elected he fucked off and went on Celeb Big Brother.
I`ve spoken to a few Muslims who think he got elected on the anti-war ticket and now is doing fuck all.

 LIBERTY STINK    {18731.   Posted 31-Mar-2008 Mon 17:36}       
Leftists (read communists) side with Islam as it`s the best weapon they have to destroy The Western capitalist democracies (they all live in).

Why was it CHINA, RUSSIA and CUBA who backed the Islamists in their Islam based and biased worldwide blasphemy law?? Because they are communist countries.

Scumbags like Livingstone and the fetid Galloway support Islam because it has the same enemy they do!
Democracy. The West. Capitalism.
Not that they will ever fuck off and live in a Communist state though. Oh no. Perks are not as good.
Another thing they share with Islamists in The West.

 dano    {18730.   Posted 31-Mar-2008 Mon 05:10}       
Re: The furore over the Dutch MP Geert Wilder`s anti-Islam film.

There are two seperate issues here. Whether the film is racist hatred and will lead to attacks on Muslims and whether it offends the religious sensibilities and beliefs of Muslims.
The first issue is worthy of debate the second is irrelevant. Nothing should ever be banned mearly for offending someone`s religious beliefs and sensibilities.
I notice many left-wing groups both in Holland and here (check www.Islamophobia-Watch.com to see what I mean) are campaigning against the film presuambly to try and get it banned. They argue it`s racism against Muslims and could lead to attacks. Obviously they believe anyone who will see it will want to go and thump the first person they see in the street who looks remotely like a Muslim. So people need to be stopped from seeing it for their own good.
Other left-wingers have condemed it for offending Muslims` beliefs. Hold on many left-wingers didn`t care Jerry Springer The Opera offended Christians. And they told the protestors trying to get Life Of Brain banned back in the 1970s to get a life.
Not that I disagree with that but I wonder why the double standards. Well here`s the reason. Bare with me on this one.
To many on the hard line socialist Left offending Muslims is seen in a totally different context to offending Christians. This is because Muslims are seen by many on the hard line socialist Left as victims of oppresion and by offending their beliefs one is only heaping more oppresion on them.
The Danish cartoons and this film is seen in the same way as dropping bombs on Iraqis, in the same way as Israel blowing up Palestinians and the same way as locking Muslims up for days on end without charge.
Had Jerry Springer The Opera featured the prophet Mohameed or Alah the same way it featured Jesus many on the hard line Left would have protested for it to be banned as they would have seen it as an act of oppresion against an oppressed minority group that practice and oppressed religion.
It also comes down to the fact Islam is a minority religion and Christianity is still seen as a majority religion. Christianity is seen by many on the hard Left as the religion that still has all the power and the religion practiced by warmongers like George Bush in the White House.
Therefore they don`t see a problem (and niether do I but not for those reasons) with having a go at Christanity and offending Christians because to them it`s only offending the beliefs of the powerful and the strong. They can defend themselves.
But because Islam is seen by the hard Left as a minority religion and the religion of those without any power and of the oppressed, the weak and the powerless offending Islam and the beliefs of Muslims is seen as offending the oppressed, the weak, the defencless and therefore an act of oppression.

I also have to say the condemnation of things which offend Muslims is far louder from some Muslims than it is from Christians who are offended.
If someone made a film about how Christianity is to blame for war (pointing the fingre at the faith of George Bush) and oppresion of other religions (mainly Islam) you might get a few nutters from Christian Voice and Mediawatch UK writing strongly worded letters to the BBC, Ofcom and the Daily Mail. But here we have blood red anger and threats of death.
Heck the most "violent" thing Christian protestors did amid the BBC Jerry Springer opera fuss was burn their licence fees.
This is because many Muslims take their offence in a totally different context to the way Christians take offence. They see it as an attack on them personally and an act of Western imperalistic oppresion. It`s the same as dropping bombs and locking people up without trial to them.

 LIBERTY STINK    {18729.   Posted 31-Mar-2008 Mon 05:07}       
http://www.iheu.org/node/3123

Just in case you missed this little news.

"""For the past eleven years the organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) has been tightening its grip on the throat of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Yesterday, 28 March 2008, they finally killed it.

With the support of their allies including China, Russia and Cuba (none well-known for their defence of human rights) the Islamic States succeeded in forcing through an amendment to a resolution on Freedom of Expression that has turned the entire concept on its head.

The UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression will now be required to report on the “abuse” of this most cherished freedom by anyone who, for example, dares speak out against Sharia laws that require women to be stoned to death for adultery or young men to be hanged for being gay, or against the marriage of girls as young as nine, as in Iran.

There has been a seismic shift in the balance of power in the UN system. For over a decade the Islamic States have been flexing their muscles. Yesterday they struck. There can no longer be any pretence that the Human Rights Council can defend human rights.

The moral leadership of the UN system has moved from the States who created the UN in the aftermath of the Second World War, to the Islamic States, whose allegiance is to a narrow, medieval worldview defined exclusively in terms of man’s duties towards Allah.

Yesterday’s attack by the Islamists, led by Pakistan, had the subtlety of a thin-bladed knife slipped silently under the ribs of the Human Rights Council.

For the first time in the 60 year history of UN Human Rights bodies, a fundamental human right has been limited simply because of the possible violent reaction by the enemies of human rights.

The violence we have seen played out in reaction to the Danish cartoons is thus excused by the Council – it was the cartoonists whose freedom of expression needed to be regulated. And Theo van Gogh can be deemed responsible for his own death.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights died yesterday. Who knows when, or if, it can ever be revived.

I used to wonder what States who felt it necessary to kill people because they change their religion thought they were doing in the Human Rights Council. Now I know.

Roy W Brown
Geneva, 29 March 2008 """

 Religious Watch    {18728.   Posted 29-Mar-2008 Sat 11:24}       
Liberty Stink

Well the Saudis have set a good example and refused to legislate along the lines of the UN recommendation. It seems that they cannot even recognise other religions much less give them rights.

If Saudi can ignore the resolution then surely the rest of the world can too.